Without getting all defensive....
Thread Starter
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Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,012
Likes: 53
From: Myrtle Beach,SC
Isn't about POT or Planned Obsolescence Theory although it can be viewed like that . In basic corporate speak the phrase is product design life , that's why the moco is constantly adding & dropping models from the line up every few years gotta keep the fish coming back for more . The whole parts thing has been well covered in here already many times and coming from the auto assembly industry it's spot on . Cheapest bidder & subcontractor gets the job and it bites everybody in the *** constantly . Harley is far from the only company doing it trust me even the big names in the auto industry like Toyota who built their reputation on longevity & quality is constantly battling and losing to substandard part suppliers .
Welcome to the Global Economy ..........................................
Welcome to the Global Economy ..........................................
I understand "design life" and own Two Toyotas one has 85K and never had a repair issue. The other is an 08 with 33K miles becasue I ride a bike 90% of the time. The RAV goes through a QT every 1200 miles. That's the worst thing I can say about my wife's vehicle. We will buy another,
. Know why I buy them? Back in 90's or so I had a Tacoma truck with 92K well out of warranty years and miles and had this "miss" in the engine. Stopped at an auto repair shop, They told me I had head gasket leak. I decided to spend the extra $500 and get the $2000+ job done at the dealership.
The Dealership said there was a TSB out and Toyota had some bad Gasket material and was replacing ALL head gaskets free on any vehicle up to 120K made within the run. Not a "safety" issue. A reliability issue. This is what a "premium" manufacture does to create a premium brand. Had a timing belt and water pump replaced while they had it apart. Thats what Toyota did. If they could get a part to last long for another nickle they would SPEND the nickle and charge more for the product. They BUILT reliability into the vehicles and charhed more for them. US auto makers did not understand why people would pay more for a Toyota than a Chevy after awhile to this day..in fact
Harley could have done the same a number of times especially with "maintenance" items that were not listed as maintenance items on any schedule. People would have paid more for them. Hell they paid $3000 over MSRP for Sporsters in the late 90's and 2000.
Boeing builds aircraft out of low bidder parts. They seem to keep people alive.
Harley Davidson is mentioned as a "premium motorcycle" No HD is a Premium brand.
The point is if you are going to sell a premium brand product, KEEP using the BEST parts and RAISE THE PRICE of the product. You have already proven any Swinging Dick with and open wallet will pay $35K for paint and chrome on a CVO or spend $23K on a new old tourer!!
Thread Starter
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Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,012
Likes: 53
From: Myrtle Beach,SC
All I know is I have been enjoying my 2003 FLHTCUI for 20k miles in the last 2 years, with only normal maintenance, and last week I needed the gas coupling replaced.
One $100 repair on a 10 year old bike. I had a lot more repairs on my Kawasaki Vulcan 750.
And I didn't get why people love their Harley's until I owned one. You sound like an angry little man.
One $100 repair on a 10 year old bike. I had a lot more repairs on my Kawasaki Vulcan 750.
And I didn't get why people love their Harley's until I owned one. You sound like an angry little man.
If I understand you right you have a 10 year old bike you have had for two years!!! ? You likely don't know what was done to that bike. in the 7 years you did not have it. If you owned it from 2003 and said that's all you had to do to it I would doubt that fact..
But 10 year old Harley is a GOOD bike maybe BETTER than an 13 except for a few expensive things that likely have been done. Maybe you have a cam gear setup? If not I would check them after 20K Its only a couple hundred dollars or a couple hours of your time to check them.
Yes I am angry. I would pay $1000 MORE for a bike I know was not down engineered to save $100 a bike. Gladly pay more for if they did not start cutting corners and instead used the some of the better parts they used 10 years ago (LIKE YOURS) and still improved upon them like they did in 07 and 09.
Make good better and better best and we will pay for it. We have shown in the past we would. Maybe too many people are showing in the PRESENT they would. This is why I hope Victory's 65% growth last year (vs Harleys 6/3%) from the year before and the Indian is a huge success wakes up some sleeping CFO in Milwalkee.
Last edited by TenMidgets; Jul 8, 2013 at 02:06 PM.
Thread Starter
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Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,012
Likes: 53
From: Myrtle Beach,SC
Road Master
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 949
Likes: 160
From: San Angelo,TX
[QUOTE][/QUSo what you are saying is Honda makes a better bike...Have another sip.....Don't dare question momma harley aye?
Part of the problem. Accept don't question.OTE]
Never will you ever hear me say or even think honda is a better bike(question momma Harley...que??). One of the many reasons I own a HD. Agree with jwhardin completely. Agree to disagree.
Part of the problem. Accept don't question.OTE]
Never will you ever hear me say or even think honda is a better bike(question momma Harley...que??). One of the many reasons I own a HD. Agree with jwhardin completely. Agree to disagree.
Club Member
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 66,122
Likes: 51,434
From: Niles Canyon Ca.
All I am saying is You have a built in market who will buy every bike you make. Use the Best parts and charge another $1000 per bike. How hard can that be? People are paying $34,000 plus for paint jobs and chrome on a CVO and selling them for $18,000 a few years later.
I understand "design life" and own Two Toyotas one has 85K and never had a repair issue. The other is an 08 with 33K miles becasue I ride a bike 90% of the time. The RAV goes through a QT every 1200 miles. That's the worst thing I can say about my wife's vehicle. We will buy another,
. Know why I buy them? Back in 90's or so I had a Tacoma truck with 92K well out of warranty years and miles and had this "miss" in the engine. Stopped at an auto repair shop, They told me I had head gasket leak. I decided to spend the extra $500 and get the $2000+ job done at the dealership.
The Dealership said there was a TSB out and Toyota had some bad Gasket material and was replacing ALL head gaskets free on any vehicle up to 120K made within the run. Not a "safety" issue. A reliability issue. This is what a "premium" manufacture does to create a premium brand. Had a timing belt and water pump replaced while they had it apart. Thats what Toyota did. If they could get a part to last long for another nickle they would SPEND the nickle and charge more for the product. They BUILT reliability into the vehicles and charhed more for them. US auto makers did not understand why people would pay more for a Toyota than a Chevy after awhile to this day..in fact
Harley could have done the same a number of times especially with "maintenance" items that were not listed as maintenance items on any schedule. People would have paid more for them. Hell they paid $3000 over MSRP for Sporsters in the late 90's and 2000.
Boeing builds aircraft out of low bidder parts. They seem to keep people alive.
Harley Davidson is mentioned as a "premium motorcycle" No HD is a Premium brand.
The point is if you are going to sell a premium brand product, KEEP using the BEST parts and RAISE THE PRICE of the product. You have already proven any Swinging Dick with and open wallet will pay $35K for paint and chrome on a CVO or spend $23K on a new old tourer!!
I understand "design life" and own Two Toyotas one has 85K and never had a repair issue. The other is an 08 with 33K miles becasue I ride a bike 90% of the time. The RAV goes through a QT every 1200 miles. That's the worst thing I can say about my wife's vehicle. We will buy another,
. Know why I buy them? Back in 90's or so I had a Tacoma truck with 92K well out of warranty years and miles and had this "miss" in the engine. Stopped at an auto repair shop, They told me I had head gasket leak. I decided to spend the extra $500 and get the $2000+ job done at the dealership.
The Dealership said there was a TSB out and Toyota had some bad Gasket material and was replacing ALL head gaskets free on any vehicle up to 120K made within the run. Not a "safety" issue. A reliability issue. This is what a "premium" manufacture does to create a premium brand. Had a timing belt and water pump replaced while they had it apart. Thats what Toyota did. If they could get a part to last long for another nickle they would SPEND the nickle and charge more for the product. They BUILT reliability into the vehicles and charhed more for them. US auto makers did not understand why people would pay more for a Toyota than a Chevy after awhile to this day..in fact
Harley could have done the same a number of times especially with "maintenance" items that were not listed as maintenance items on any schedule. People would have paid more for them. Hell they paid $3000 over MSRP for Sporsters in the late 90's and 2000.
Boeing builds aircraft out of low bidder parts. They seem to keep people alive.
Harley Davidson is mentioned as a "premium motorcycle" No HD is a Premium brand.
The point is if you are going to sell a premium brand product, KEEP using the BEST parts and RAISE THE PRICE of the product. You have already proven any Swinging Dick with and open wallet will pay $35K for paint and chrome on a CVO or spend $23K on a new old tourer!!
Doesn't take a degree from Stanford to figure this out .
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 28,842
Likes: 16,582
From: Wisconsin, USA
OP, I actually agree with some of your points, that beancounters and management with no love for bikes is cheapening the product. I am not going to replace my '03, until I have to. But it is what it is. Like being a Brewers fan versus being a Packers fan. Packers fans can demand Championships, because there is a proven model for achieving them. Brewers fans settle for occasionally making the playoffs. I will settle for some pattern failures on a Harley because I am a Harley fan. I don't care how reliable the competition is, I don't like their products new out of the box, working perfectly.
If you would fall in love with a Harley your heart would overrule your overactive brain. If that made you happy great. If not go back to metrics. But don't torture yourself looking for the perfect Harley.
If you would fall in love with a Harley your heart would overrule your overactive brain. If that made you happy great. If not go back to metrics. But don't torture yourself looking for the perfect Harley.
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Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,234
Likes: 462
From: Arizona
Don't want to take the depreciation hit on a new bike? Then don't!!! Buy a used one, but FFS please STFU and go buy something. You continuous diatribe about H-D koolaid and defending the brand is tiring.
I've read your other posts in this forum, you most definitely are a troll. Now go back under your bridge & don't come out until you've bought a bike - any bike.
Thread Starter
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Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,012
Likes: 53
From: Myrtle Beach,SC
Since you seem to already know everything about everything, what was/is the point of your original post. You've done nothing but slam H-D, yet insist that you're shopping for the 'right' one. You rode metrics for 30 problem free years. Big deal, so have I, and a lot of the other members here. Actually I've been riding for 43yrs - metrics, British, & H-D. All have required mtce and some have required repairs - this is nothing new for any brand.
Don't want to take the depreciation hit on a new bike? Then don't!!! Buy a used one, but FFS please STFU and go buy something. You continuous diatribe about H-D koolaid and defending the brand is tiring.
I've read your other posts in this forum, you most definitely are a troll. Now go back under your bridge & don't come out until you've bought a bike - any bike.
Don't want to take the depreciation hit on a new bike? Then don't!!! Buy a used one, but FFS please STFU and go buy something. You continuous diatribe about H-D koolaid and defending the brand is tiring.
I've read your other posts in this forum, you most definitely are a troll. Now go back under your bridge & don't come out until you've bought a bike - any bike.
Depreciation and my low mileage riding is the very reason I will ride a Harley again. They can be had cheap.