Hi Guys,

I'm quite confused right now.

We all know the Panhead came up in 1948 and the flatheaded UL disappeared fromt the lineup that same year

I recently bought a second hand book about Harley-Davidson, wherein is written that the Pan indeed showed up in 1948, but there is a 1000cc ( 61ci) EL still in production till 1952.

Am I wrong by assuming that the Knucklehead has been produced till 1952, or was the Panhead available in two different displacements (61 & 74ci?)

production numbers (from that book) for the EL are:

1948: 4321 (+ 198 ES with lower compression engines)
1949: 3419 (they even speak about EL, ES, EP and ELP??)
1950: 2046
1951: 1532
1952: 918

while production numbers for the 1200cc FL (Panhead)

1948: 8071 (+ 334 FS)
1949: 8014 (+ 486 FLP & 490 FS)
1950: 7407 (+ 544 FS)
1951: 6560 (+ 135 FS)
1952: 5554 (+ 186 FLS suited for side car).

Am I becoming nuts, or is this book waay wrong?

Thanks for chiming in...

 

The Panhead was available in 2 displacement sizes briefly, but the smaller motor was discontinued.

 

Pan or Knuckle EL=61 CU. IN.
FL=74 CU. IN.
wuzfuz

 

Ok, from 1948 on, Pan available in 61 and 74ci, got it!

Many thanks!

 

61 ci pan was phased out in 1953. Funny this came up I was just reading about that this morning.

 

This is a small world, hehe

By the way, not so long go, I also was suprised to see a 45" from 1949, with a hydraglide fender on a springer fork:




I guess i'll learn each day...

 

H-D had a tendency to use up the lower cases into a new model year- this continued up to 1984 using Shovel lower ends.

The 61 cid was marketed to city police departments and utilities for around town use.

 

You mean the early shovels still had the Panhead lower cases, as the Evo's kept the cone late shovels lower cases?

This is what I like at H-D, there is no revolution, just evolution. Each time they did it differently, there appeared some flaws or failures in the design (1936 Knuck oil and valves springs troubles, for instance, the first WL's also had their problems, it seems).

I'm a history nerd, any history, and I really enjoy H-D history. I never saw here someone mention Bill harley's son taking over the engineering business at H-D during the 1940's...

 

one thing to remember about H-D history is nothing is etched in stone
have been fooled more than once.Piece of panhead trivia,while hydraulic
front end offered in 49 sidecar models came equipped with springer because
of increased trail helped handling.First hydraulic lifter introduced in 51 built into
bottom of pushrod did not work worth a damm,still have them in a box upstairs.

 

You are correct that the UL series ceased production with the 1948 modles; however flatheads in 45 model series continues until 1973 primarily utilized as the servicar (G models)

For 1948 Panhead models:

48 EL 61 OHV - Special Solo Sport (7:1 compression)
48 E 61 OHV - Medium compression (6.5:1 compression)
48 ES 61 OHV - Sidecar gearing with medium compression (6.5:1 compression)
48 FL 74 OHV - Special Solo Sport (7:1 compression)
48 F 74 OHV - Medium compression (6.6:1 compression)
48 FS 74 OHV - Sidecar gearing with medium compression (6.6:1 compression)

E/EL motors were basically 1000 cc motors; F/FL motors werte basically 1200 cc motors.

In addition MoCo also utilized "Equipment Groups". There was a basic standard package that the models came with and additional packages which offered more. These were categorzied as the Sport Solo Group, the Deluxe Solo Group, The Standard Police Group, the Utility Group, and the Deluxe Sport Sidecar Group. There was also first and last year features (most notably the last year for the UL series) as well as 1948 only features.

The same configuration of pans followed in 1949 models as did equipment groups, first and last year items as well as 1949 only features. Now throw in fit and fitment and finish changes (even down to plating of parts), add in paint schemes and colors and you can see that MoCo has been doing this a very long time and that it continues into today.

Just to add...yes HD quit producing the E series pans in 52. In 1949 MoCo again produced two basic versions of the pan, high compression (EL/FL) and low compression (F/L) although MoCo designated the models as "medium compression". Hydra glide forks were standard on all F/FL, E/EL models but spring forks were available by special order for sidecar-quipped bikes (although springer equipped models were available even without the sidecar). All bikes so equipped were designated EP, ELP, FLP, depending on which motor was fitted.

in 1949 sidecar gearing was also available for both chassis and bikes were designated as ES, ELS, EPS, FLPS, FS, FLS, FLPS, depending on the motor and front end. However....I have only seen the "S" stamped on one set of cases and that was a 48 model and not a 49 model. Common belief in some circles is that the "S" was not stamped on the motor as part of the serial number and that the "P" somtimes was, BUT it was stamped at the end of the number.

So while the numbers produced for each modle year might be interesting, it would be very difficult o know for certainty that one possessed any other than an E/EL, F/FL model unless there was documentation in the form of an original sales invoice from the factory attached to an original, unmolested machine it would be difficult to show it was in fact somethiong other than an E/EL, F/FL with whatever equipment group avialable for the year model. There are a few out there and going to some AMCA swap meets I have see a few original condition bikes but the numbers get fewer by the day.