HDForums tackles Tiered Licensing.
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,158
Likes: 68
From: Martinsburg, WV
Agreed. Let them try this crap with all vehicles and see how far the idea goes.
Going by CCs is stupid, as is going by HP rating. The only thing that would make sense would be power to weight ratio ratings.
The other thing to consider is that this would give LEO's reason to arbitrarily pull over anyone on a larger bike simply to check their license, opening the door for DOT helmet checks and more.
Going by CCs is stupid, as is going by HP rating. The only thing that would make sense would be power to weight ratio ratings.
The other thing to consider is that this would give LEO's reason to arbitrarily pull over anyone on a larger bike simply to check their license, opening the door for DOT helmet checks and more.
Cruiser
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 133
Likes: 0
From: Cincy
This should and needs to remain a personal responsibility issue. If you suck at riding, go practice.
Besides, your point is a logical fallacy akin to "have you stopped beating your wife". In this case, "You don' tike it because you couldn't pass it", with the flip side being, "If you can pass it, what does it matter."
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,364
Likes: 33
From: So Cal The Golden State
I did not read the article but I do have an opinion, yes this should apply to all vehicles, motorcycles, cars,trucks, RV.
the industry has had their opportunities to be responsible, the industry could have governed them selves. But the sell speed, HP and performance. People own/buy and operate machines that are beyond their experience(this relates to all vehicles)
This has been a long debate for all vehicles, if the industry was responsible relative to what they make and who they sell to there would be no debate.
Now the real problem we have laws but when will they be actually enforced. Texting--tinted windows that are almost blacked out. What is the point of legislating a law if it will never be enforced.
the industry has had their opportunities to be responsible, the industry could have governed them selves. But the sell speed, HP and performance. People own/buy and operate machines that are beyond their experience(this relates to all vehicles)
This has been a long debate for all vehicles, if the industry was responsible relative to what they make and who they sell to there would be no debate.
Now the real problem we have laws but when will they be actually enforced. Texting--tinted windows that are almost blacked out. What is the point of legislating a law if it will never be enforced.
Club Member
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 6,905
Likes: 4,877
From: Midwest
I don't at all. One, I think those people you are referring to do not realize they kind of suck at slow speed maneuvers. Two, those tests are mainly low speed maneuvers. Great, you can handle your ultra at the mall. What about a defensive lane change at 70MPH? No one is going to test for that and there is no real skill set difference at that speed for most any bike.
This should and needs to remain a personal responsibility issue. If you suck at riding, go practice.
Besides, your point is a logical fallacy akin to "have you stopped beating your wife". In this case, "You don' tike it because you couldn't pass it", with the flip side being, "If you can pass it, what does it matter."
This should and needs to remain a personal responsibility issue. If you suck at riding, go practice.
Besides, your point is a logical fallacy akin to "have you stopped beating your wife". In this case, "You don' tike it because you couldn't pass it", with the flip side being, "If you can pass it, what does it matter."
Low speed handling covers a lot of ground: clutch and throttle control, brake control, balance, hand-eye coordination, etc. In other words, a lot of those things critically important when on a motorcycle. You have to put all those elements together when riding at slow speeds. You can't avoid it. So it seems a great way to test. Anyone can go fast in a straight line. Just twist the throttle.
Emergency braking and swerving is also on the test. If you cannot stop your bike within the 30 feet strip while going 20 MPH while retaining control and not dumping your bike or putting your feet down, you probably should not be on the streets. If you cannot swerve and brake in succession, you also probably should not be on the streets.
So while the test does not cover it all, it certainly does cover a lot. Would you want to be riding around somene who failed the above tests? I wouldn't.
The test is not the end-all and be-all and does not rate you according to skill and does not sanction you as a competant rider. It simply says you posess the minimum, very basic rudimentary skills that are required to be a rider. I think it's a good idea to test people for such basic rudiments before you officially license them to operate a motorcycle on public roads. IMO, if you cannot pass this very basic skills test on your current ride, you probably should be on a different bike or not be riding on public roads.
Last edited by MiniWolf; Aug 1, 2014 at 09:40 AM.
Big Kahuna HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 35,506
Likes: 27
From: Calgary eh
The tier should not be based on displacement of the engine as many have pointed out. Riders get into trouble with the weight of the machine, and the speed. I suppose the logic is the weight and speed are roughly proportional to CC's.
Actually I don't give a rats *** about this doesn't effect me in any way. I have bigger fish to fry. Where's a good syn/dino oil thread, I got a few things to say...
Actually I don't give a rats *** about this doesn't effect me in any way. I have bigger fish to fry. Where's a good syn/dino oil thread, I got a few things to say...
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 9,705
Likes: 18,485
From: Displaced Texan
I agree with the stupid nanny law BS. We don't need anymore.
1st... This is not Europe, or one of Her Majesty's "Europe Wannabe" territories. This is the USA. What little relaxation we still have left with laws, are cherished here. There are already too many laws, and most are poorly enforced. We don't need more laws. Enforcement of the existing ones will do fine. There IS a risk with this, and I am OK with it. Think gun control. I'm over it. ETA, yes, riding is a privilege, but I should not have to get down on my knees at the tax office in order to ride my bike legally. Money and inconvenience is what this is about. Not safety.
2nd... You can't test the general public for stupidity and bad judgement. Argument over. I don't care if the guy that just went out and bought a 200+ MPH crotch rocket is the best rider on the planet. If he is DUMB enough to run it up to 150 MPH on a public highway in the US, he should not be riding. I don't care if he has an A++++ license. JUDGEMENT is what will apply most of the time.
I'll take a novice rider with good judgement, over a highly experienced, properly licensed reckless moron, any day of the week. I argue that novice rider probably WON'T run the bike up to 200 MPH because he will be scared to, as where the experienced bad judgement guy WILL, thinking his superior riding skills will save him... Until the blue-hair pulls out in front of him at Wallyworld.
This debate is all about the government making more money and having more PC for officers to make more revenue traffic stops. Safety my @$$.
1st... This is not Europe, or one of Her Majesty's "Europe Wannabe" territories. This is the USA. What little relaxation we still have left with laws, are cherished here. There are already too many laws, and most are poorly enforced. We don't need more laws. Enforcement of the existing ones will do fine. There IS a risk with this, and I am OK with it. Think gun control. I'm over it. ETA, yes, riding is a privilege, but I should not have to get down on my knees at the tax office in order to ride my bike legally. Money and inconvenience is what this is about. Not safety.
2nd... You can't test the general public for stupidity and bad judgement. Argument over. I don't care if the guy that just went out and bought a 200+ MPH crotch rocket is the best rider on the planet. If he is DUMB enough to run it up to 150 MPH on a public highway in the US, he should not be riding. I don't care if he has an A++++ license. JUDGEMENT is what will apply most of the time.
I'll take a novice rider with good judgement, over a highly experienced, properly licensed reckless moron, any day of the week. I argue that novice rider probably WON'T run the bike up to 200 MPH because he will be scared to, as where the experienced bad judgement guy WILL, thinking his superior riding skills will save him... Until the blue-hair pulls out in front of him at Wallyworld.
This debate is all about the government making more money and having more PC for officers to make more revenue traffic stops. Safety my @$$.
Last edited by Piloto; Aug 1, 2014 at 02:25 PM.
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 4,990
Likes: 9
From: Marina del Rey
Cruiser
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 133
Likes: 0
From: Cincy
I agree with the stupid nanny law BS. We don't need anymore.
1st... This is not Europe, or one of Her Majesty's "Europe Wannabe" territories. This is the USA. What little relaxation we still have left with laws, are cherished here. There are already too many laws, and most are poorly enforced. We don't need more laws. Enforcement of the existing ones will do fine. There IS a risk with this, and I am OK with it. Think gun control. I'm over it. ETA, yes, riding is a privilege, but I should not have to get down on my knees at the tax office in order to ride my bike legally. Money and inconvenience is what this is about. Not safety.
2nd... You can't test the general public for stupidity and bad judgement. Argument over. I don't care if the guy that just went out and bought a 200+ MPH crotch rocket is the best rider on the planet. If he is DUMB enough to run it up to 150 MPH on a public highway in the US, he should not be riding. I don't care if he has an A++++ license. JUDGEMENT is what will apply most of the time.
I'll take a novice rider with good judgement, over a highly experienced, properly licensed reckless moron, any day of the week. I argue that novice rider probably WON'T run the bike up to 200 MPH because he will be scared to, as where the experienced bad judgement guy WILL, thinking his superior riding skills will save him... Until the blue-hair pulls out in front of him at Wallyworld.
This debate is all about the government making more money and having more PC for officers to make more revenue traffic stops. Safety my @$$.
1st... This is not Europe, or one of Her Majesty's "Europe Wannabe" territories. This is the USA. What little relaxation we still have left with laws, are cherished here. There are already too many laws, and most are poorly enforced. We don't need more laws. Enforcement of the existing ones will do fine. There IS a risk with this, and I am OK with it. Think gun control. I'm over it. ETA, yes, riding is a privilege, but I should not have to get down on my knees at the tax office in order to ride my bike legally. Money and inconvenience is what this is about. Not safety.
2nd... You can't test the general public for stupidity and bad judgement. Argument over. I don't care if the guy that just went out and bought a 200+ MPH crotch rocket is the best rider on the planet. If he is DUMB enough to run it up to 150 MPH on a public highway in the US, he should not be riding. I don't care if he has an A++++ license. JUDGEMENT is what will apply most of the time.
I'll take a novice rider with good judgement, over a highly experienced, properly licensed reckless moron, any day of the week. I argue that novice rider probably WON'T run the bike up to 200 MPH because he will be scared to, as where the experienced bad judgement guy WILL, thinking his superior riding skills will save him... Until the blue-hair pulls out in front of him at Wallyworld.
This debate is all about the government making more money and having more PC for officers to make more revenue traffic stops. Safety my @$$.
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Joe Kucinski
Cruiser
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 115
Likes: 2
From: FL/CO
I agree with the stupid nanny law BS. We don't need anymore.
1st... This is not Europe, or one of Her Majesty's "Europe Wannabe" territories. This is the USA. What little relaxation we still have left with laws, are cherished here. There are already too many laws, and most are poorly enforced. We don't need more laws. Enforcement of the existing ones will do fine. There IS a risk with this, and I am OK with it. Think gun control. I'm over it. ETA, yes, riding is a privilege, but I should not have to get down on my knees at the tax office in order to ride my bike legally. Money and inconvenience is what this is about. Not safety.
2nd... You can't test the general public for stupidity and bad judgement. Argument over. I don't care if the guy that just went out and bought a 200+ MPH crotch rocket is the best rider on the planet. If he is DUMB enough to run it up to 150 MPH on a public highway in the US, he should not be riding. I don't care if he has an A++++ license. JUDGEMENT is what will apply most of the time.
I'll take a novice rider with good judgement, over a highly experienced, properly licensed reckless moron, any day of the week. I argue that novice rider probably WON'T run the bike up to 200 MPH because he will be scared to, as where the experienced bad judgement guy WILL, thinking his superior riding skills will save him... Until the blue-hair pulls out in front of him at Wallyworld.
This debate is all about the government making more money and having more PC for officers to make more revenue traffic stops. Safety my @$$.
1st... This is not Europe, or one of Her Majesty's "Europe Wannabe" territories. This is the USA. What little relaxation we still have left with laws, are cherished here. There are already too many laws, and most are poorly enforced. We don't need more laws. Enforcement of the existing ones will do fine. There IS a risk with this, and I am OK with it. Think gun control. I'm over it. ETA, yes, riding is a privilege, but I should not have to get down on my knees at the tax office in order to ride my bike legally. Money and inconvenience is what this is about. Not safety.
2nd... You can't test the general public for stupidity and bad judgement. Argument over. I don't care if the guy that just went out and bought a 200+ MPH crotch rocket is the best rider on the planet. If he is DUMB enough to run it up to 150 MPH on a public highway in the US, he should not be riding. I don't care if he has an A++++ license. JUDGEMENT is what will apply most of the time.
I'll take a novice rider with good judgement, over a highly experienced, properly licensed reckless moron, any day of the week. I argue that novice rider probably WON'T run the bike up to 200 MPH because he will be scared to, as where the experienced bad judgement guy WILL, thinking his superior riding skills will save him... Until the blue-hair pulls out in front of him at Wallyworld.
This debate is all about the government making more money and having more PC for officers to make more revenue traffic stops. Safety my @$$.
Club Member
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 66,128
Likes: 51,461
From: Niles Canyon Ca.
".... a novice rider with good judgement........"