An Interesting Look @ T-Max Timing & AFR Maps
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Road Master
Joined: Oct 2008
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An Interesting Look @ T-Max Timing & AFR Maps
Bought and installed a Thunder Max within two months of bringing the bike home. The OL thought I was out of my mind, screeched and cawed at me all morning for tearing into a brand new machine, guts hanging out of both sides. That was two years ago and Ive been messing with this thing ever since. The reason I havent been overjoyed with it is because I was expecting perfection but along with the increase in power I also got a bunch of annoying little issues, decel popping, high end roll on pinging, pop on start, inconsistent idle. Every time Id fix one thing Id notice something else but overall the improvement in power made up for the little annoyances
.. for a while. Being a gigantic dikhead, I finally got tired of it and decided to fix it or smoke it. The device itself always seemed to do whatever I asked, I just couldnt figure out what to ask for. Im not a tuner so this was an exercise in patience and study. To get a handle on what it was doing, I put every number from the Ignition Timing VS TPS maps and every number from the Air/Fuel-TPS @ rpm maps into Excel spreadsheets and created charts. OK, Im a geek, totally admit it, but looking at the charts gave me a couple of surprises. The first one was that some of the really weird behavior at idle appeared to be due to the fact that Zippers left the below idle TPS maps set to some ungodly AFRs. Im pretty sure thats the reason for loud pops at start and contributed to inconsistent idle etc. First thing I did was changed those
huge success, near perfect idle and no more pops at start. Next thing was to reduce the overall AFR across the board and add some reasonable depth based on TPS and RPM, symmetrical seemed to make sense. Made what appeared to be drastic changes to the map, scared to death, hit the starter, unbelievable. No loss of power whatsoever through the spectrum of RPM and TPS, AND using less gas to get there. Right, at this point better admit that I dont have a dyno, this is all seat of the pants and I dont blame anyone for thinking Im full of crap, but I am sure I can tell the difference from one ride to the next. Anyway confidence growing attacked bunch of inconsistent changes from TPS to TPS in the timing maps. Killed the roll on ping, smoother at all RPMS, blew through 110 on the way to work this morning, HAD TO SHARE. Maybe Im tooting my own horn a little, but for the amount of work it took to map all that out, it paid off. You can see every little inconsistency in your maps and smooth them out. Its not hard to do its just a pain in the butt. I think seriously worth the effort. Anyway, heres the before and after, If you have the time and patience, give it a try.
t
Here's my original AFR Map, although it looks flatter, it's not, 12.5 to 13.8
Here's the way it looks now, looks steeper but it's not 13.0 to 13.8, just the way I printed it out.
Here's the original timing map, notice the ridges upper left.
And the way it looks now ...
Another look at timing this time by RPM map.
t
Here's my original AFR Map, although it looks flatter, it's not, 12.5 to 13.8
Here's the way it looks now, looks steeper but it's not 13.0 to 13.8, just the way I printed it out.
Here's the original timing map, notice the ridges upper left.
And the way it looks now ...
Another look at timing this time by RPM map.
Last edited by Robottom; Oct 17, 2023 at 12:15 PM.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 9,281
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From: southeast PA
Great post! It must have been a lot of work. For almost 2 years I've been going through most of the same issues as you. I am definitely not a tuner. I can tell what the problems are but can't figure out how to solve them. Being able to visualize the map like that has to be a tremendous advantage.
Last edited by nevil; Aug 5, 2010 at 01:52 PM. Reason: edit
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Road Master
Joined: Oct 2008
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From: here
Map & Template
Here's the blank template and my map. I don't mind sharing at all, I wish someone had done this sooner.
So, the deal is, POST YOUR MAPS too!!!
Or, at least feedback if you see anything really crazy in mine.
I'd like to see what other folks are doing and be sure I'm not completely out of my skull.
I'll wait for some feedback and then maybe send to Zippers, although don't know if they'd be interested or not since they might not have any way to test this.
HOWEVER, I will definitely bitch at them about making some sort of export or transfer program available to move data back and forth between their application and Excel or some other common format.
t
So, the deal is, POST YOUR MAPS too!!!
Or, at least feedback if you see anything really crazy in mine.
I'd like to see what other folks are doing and be sure I'm not completely out of my skull.
I'll wait for some feedback and then maybe send to Zippers, although don't know if they'd be interested or not since they might not have any way to test this.
HOWEVER, I will definitely bitch at them about making some sort of export or transfer program available to move data back and forth between their application and Excel or some other common format.
t
Last edited by Robottom; Oct 17, 2023 at 12:15 PM.
Tourer
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 280
Likes: 1
From: Wisconsin
I'm going to try and convert this over to use with my power commander!
Is there someting I'm missing with the SLK file.
Is that something you can down load from your T-max?
Told you I wasn't real good with graphs.
Is there someting I'm missing with the SLK file.
Is that something you can down load from your T-max?
Told you I wasn't real good with graphs.
4th Gear
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Nice work. I have been running a Tmax for over 4 years and I have been tuning my bike and others for the last 2 years. If you like I can take a look at your MAP
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Road Master
Joined: Oct 2008
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mopar400: The slk is the map file from Zippers SmartLink IV software. That's the application we use to communicate with the T-Max. I uploaded the template without my data in it because it's a easier to load your own if you start from a blank form. That way you don't loose track of what you put in there. I have no idea if the data in any other EFI is laid out the same as the T-Max. The template matches the data organization of the maps in the SmartLink software.
7hogs: Heck yeah, I think it's running pretty good right now but don't know if there is anything in there that I should be watching out for. I haven't pulled the plugs yet, want to put a few miles on first. Last time I looked at them, both had a nice dark yellow-tan on the tips but slightly oily black on the base. I'm not running stock plugs, NGKs - lots of controversy. Anyway, that and pretty dismal gas mileage made me want to make a few changes. I'ld be happy to hear any observations or advice you'd care to offer, thanks.
7hogs: Heck yeah, I think it's running pretty good right now but don't know if there is anything in there that I should be watching out for. I haven't pulled the plugs yet, want to put a few miles on first. Last time I looked at them, both had a nice dark yellow-tan on the tips but slightly oily black on the base. I'm not running stock plugs, NGKs - lots of controversy. Anyway, that and pretty dismal gas mileage made me want to make a few changes. I'ld be happy to hear any observations or advice you'd care to offer, thanks.
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4th Gear
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
I just joined this site but I downloaded your Zip file and your MAP will not load so you will need to send it to me some how.
NGK's is what I have been using and they work great.
I would also need your build and CCP if possible.
NGK's is what I have been using and they work great.
I would also need your build and CCP if possible.