Here's a little SERT/ECM info for ya
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Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2004
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From: Central Virginia
Here's a little SERT/ECM info for ya
As I posted earlier, my '05 ECM went bad. They had to replace it with an '07 ECM.
1. The new '07 ECM could not be programmed using my 'D' series SERT tuner key. I had to aquire an '07 'F' series key, which was supplied under warrently.
2. With the '07 ECM, I noticed that my "Check engine" light would come on while riding. Checking the error code back at the service dept. indicated that the new ECM was looking for 02 sensor information that didn't exist since my '05 doesn't have 02 sensors. The engine is running lean and the '07 ECM is searching for data that would allow it to adjust. Hopefully, a dyno next week will solve all that.
1. The new '07 ECM could not be programmed using my 'D' series SERT tuner key. I had to aquire an '07 'F' series key, which was supplied under warrently.
2. With the '07 ECM, I noticed that my "Check engine" light would come on while riding. Checking the error code back at the service dept. indicated that the new ECM was looking for 02 sensor information that didn't exist since my '05 doesn't have 02 sensors. The engine is running lean and the '07 ECM is searching for data that would allow it to adjust. Hopefully, a dyno next week will solve all that.
Road Captain
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 718
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From: Fairfax, Virginia
RE: Here's a little SERT/ECM info for ya
Don't think a dyno will take care of the light. The ECM is looking of O2 sensor input, which it won't get if the sensor is missing. There must be a way to disable this in the ECM.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2006
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RE: Here's a little SERT/ECM info for ya
The difference is in the ECM.......
Are you sure that they installed the correct ECM (Should be an 05, 05A or 05B PN), as well as the correct baseline programming.....
The ECM doesn't look for sensors, the programming does.....
That is one of the things that you cannot do, is install an 07 cal in an 05 bike... Digital Tech won't allow it....
05 programming won't look for o2 sensors......
Are you sure that they installed the correct ECM (Should be an 05, 05A or 05B PN), as well as the correct baseline programming.....
The ECM doesn't look for sensors, the programming does.....
That is one of the things that you cannot do, is install an 07 cal in an 05 bike... Digital Tech won't allow it....
05 programming won't look for o2 sensors......
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Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2004
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From: Central Virginia
RE: Here's a little SERT/ECM info for ya
I just do not know what ECM they installed other than what I was told, and that was it was the ECM currently being installed in the '07 bikes - a 'B' series ECM.
From conversation, I developed the impression from them that the '05 ECM was no longer available. All replacement ECMs would be the current '07 'B' ECM.
Again, the light was coming 'on' because the program (a new program on the 'F' series tuner disk) was searching for 02 data as a result of the engine being too lean. A dyno would richen up the AFR with proper tuning and the light would then go out. (Might that be because the new models operate on a closed loop system and the program accepts engine performance data and then makes tuning adjustments?)
Anyway, I'm certainly no tech. You guys know a lot more about it than I do. I just can't imagine them ordering an ECM from the MoCo for a 2005 and the MoCo not knowing which ECM to send!
From conversation, I developed the impression from them that the '05 ECM was no longer available. All replacement ECMs would be the current '07 'B' ECM.
Again, the light was coming 'on' because the program (a new program on the 'F' series tuner disk) was searching for 02 data as a result of the engine being too lean. A dyno would richen up the AFR with proper tuning and the light would then go out. (Might that be because the new models operate on a closed loop system and the program accepts engine performance data and then makes tuning adjustments?)
Anyway, I'm certainly no tech. You guys know a lot more about it than I do. I just can't imagine them ordering an ECM from the MoCo for a 2005 and the MoCo not knowing which ECM to send!
Road Captain
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 710
Likes: 2
From: St.Louis, MO
RE: Here's a little SERT/ECM info for ya
I didn't write the software, but I gotta agree. I don't see how
modifing the map is going to get that light out. The software
has got to be written to make adjustments to the A/F ratio
depending on what the input on the O2 sensors are giving.
There must be a way to shut that off or if not I wonder if
your dealer will have to install O2 sensors. Let us know what
comes out of that, I would be interested in knowing the fix.
modifing the map is going to get that light out. The software
has got to be written to make adjustments to the A/F ratio
depending on what the input on the O2 sensors are giving.
There must be a way to shut that off or if not I wonder if
your dealer will have to install O2 sensors. Let us know what
comes out of that, I would be interested in knowing the fix.
Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2006
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From: NOMAD Milton FL Now Originaly From San Rafael CA
RE: Here's a little SERT/ECM info for ya
I cannot Imagen them putting in a ecm for an 07 because all the parts are not there ( 02 sensor ) it needs to see that signal Besides the calabration is much leaner i do not think dyno can tune it with a down load
if there is a down load it should Have been noted in a service buliten
the shop might not have all proper information
if there is a down load it should Have been noted in a service buliten
the shop might not have all proper information
Tourer
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 409
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From:
RE: Here's a little SERT/ECM info for ya
Hello Jezcruzen
If the ECM is looking for data input on one of the sensor ports then just increasing the fuel Load may not solve the problem. The ECM is looking for a signal; In this case I would think that it is looking for a voltage level generated by the o2 sensor. The tech must have a way to alter the software so that the ECM no longer looks for the o2. sensor. If they are only going to manufacture the 07 ECM then they have to have some kind of plan for backwards compatibility. Let the Techs dice with it, one way or another the Moco will have to come up with a fix.
Good luck with it.
Zyklon
If the ECM is looking for data input on one of the sensor ports then just increasing the fuel Load may not solve the problem. The ECM is looking for a signal; In this case I would think that it is looking for a voltage level generated by the o2 sensor. The tech must have a way to alter the software so that the ECM no longer looks for the o2. sensor. If they are only going to manufacture the 07 ECM then they have to have some kind of plan for backwards compatibility. Let the Techs dice with it, one way or another the Moco will have to come up with a fix.
Good luck with it.
Zyklon
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Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2006
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RE: Here's a little SERT/ECM info for ya
I'll bet the tech installed the incorrect SERT MAP....
For a 2006 or newer Shotgun/Shorty exhaust......
That is the only way that it will hont for a sensor....
If they used an 05 Calibration you wouldn't be experiencing the CEL.....
For a 2006 or newer Shotgun/Shorty exhaust......
That is the only way that it will hont for a sensor....
If they used an 05 Calibration you wouldn't be experiencing the CEL.....
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Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,300
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From: Central Virginia
RE: Here's a little SERT/ECM info for ya
Everything that you guys say makes prefect sense. You steered me right about the ECM before.
I'll find out tomorrow. I'm dropping the bike off early so they can do a dyno. (Needed that done, anyway)
I loaded the new CD onto my laptop yesterday and looked over the programs. The '05 program downloads are still there just like on the older "D" CD. I was tempted to do a download and the see how it ran, but the dyno is tomorrow....
I'll let everyone know how it turns out.
I'll find out tomorrow. I'm dropping the bike off early so they can do a dyno. (Needed that done, anyway)
I loaded the new CD onto my laptop yesterday and looked over the programs. The '05 program downloads are still there just like on the older "D" CD. I was tempted to do a download and the see how it ran, but the dyno is tomorrow....
I'll let everyone know how it turns out.
Thread Starter
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Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,300
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From: Central Virginia
RE: Here's a little SERT/ECM info for ya
Guys, here's the deal as of now.
I dropped the bike off for the dyno tune this morning. I called this afternoon and was told that decel popping was still occurring to some degree, but that the torque was now about 77-79 ftlbs and the HP was only slightly less. They asked to keep the bike overnight in order to do a cold start tomorrow morning. Rain is in the forecast, so that's O.K. with me.
This morning, the tech told me he had to drop in an '07 download last week for the ECM to accept it and them "cut and paste" from an '05 download. (I don't know, folks. This is what I was told)
This afternoon I was told that Harley knows about the problem and is working on a "fix" so that the 02 sensor can be disabled for pre-'07 EFI bikes. What form the fix takes is anybody's guess.
All of you are right - the dyno won't solve the problem of the CEL coming on. Apparently I'll have to live with it until the fix is developed.
It seems that some of you are ahead of the learning curve for the local techs I'm dealing with. I don't think they are hoo-dooing me on this. More than likely, they simply don't know WTF is happening and are doing the best they can under the circumstances.
My concern is that I've got this great bike that's only 18 months old that now has this chronic disorder with the programming regardless of how well it actually performs. What now?
I dropped the bike off for the dyno tune this morning. I called this afternoon and was told that decel popping was still occurring to some degree, but that the torque was now about 77-79 ftlbs and the HP was only slightly less. They asked to keep the bike overnight in order to do a cold start tomorrow morning. Rain is in the forecast, so that's O.K. with me.
This morning, the tech told me he had to drop in an '07 download last week for the ECM to accept it and them "cut and paste" from an '05 download. (I don't know, folks. This is what I was told)
This afternoon I was told that Harley knows about the problem and is working on a "fix" so that the 02 sensor can be disabled for pre-'07 EFI bikes. What form the fix takes is anybody's guess.
All of you are right - the dyno won't solve the problem of the CEL coming on. Apparently I'll have to live with it until the fix is developed.
It seems that some of you are ahead of the learning curve for the local techs I'm dealing with. I don't think they are hoo-dooing me on this. More than likely, they simply don't know WTF is happening and are doing the best they can under the circumstances.
My concern is that I've got this great bike that's only 18 months old that now has this chronic disorder with the programming regardless of how well it actually performs. What now?
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