It does not make sense to me why the temp is so low to start pulling timing. At 176 F its not even warmed up. My table starts to pull time at 147 F I know yours is a trike probably warmer? I wish I understood the 3 tables better Air, engine, head temp spark adjust. I thought one of them was for V rod only?

 

Heatwave
You and I just said the exact same things! I also said the PV is great. I have also tuned with numerous products. I just said, for that big wierd build some of those tools you say don't count... CAN count on that big build is all. And... I think you DO have the cam tool deal. Or... we should at some point, I would hope.

Things like the baro, you poo poo, but baro is a key on deal( it is checked upon key being turned on... NOT all the time), the TTS can make it active anytime above a certain throttle/map point is all. Also, some of the inherent difference are how the base maps are made. Cruise control... with a TTS tune, the cruise will work at over 100mph. Torque management, inside of the ECM, is basically toggled 'off' with TTS. Little things for that BIG build was all I was saying and your panties got twisted. No Biggie on my end, my friend.

One of the mainstays in my shop is ME buying the PV, and then selling PV tunes using the tuning 'keys'. That IS a great way for a customer to save hundreds of dollars. For older, open loop, bikes I use Direct Link as it has 'keys' also.

MOST folks do NOT wish to mess with tuning, it is just us few folks here and on the other forums. Such a miniscule amount... in the scheme of things.

To me... it is ALL about making the customer happy. We, on here, argue about stuff that really isn't that big of a deal. But... for a 124 or a 120R, etc. I WILL use a TTS for those little differences. Next year, we are going to start selling a 118 package. 145+ sq. For that package, most likely will come with a TTS for the end user. Our 104 package, that should be here late this year? PV would be more than fine! It would be MY choice of tuner to sell with that package.

Do NOT mistake me for a hater. ANd... do NOT hate on ME for knowing what a few differences here and there can make for the 'better' final end tune. Bigger builds take data to tune. the PV will collect the data only thru the PV, THEN you go look at the log. Sometimes... not often, but sometimes.... having that PC hooked up while tuning IS a BIG plus. A PC will always out collect over a flash drive. Again... see how this COULD be a help? You do NOT have to agree at all, but in your MIND.. can you see?

Oh... and by the way, we, on HTT, actually took the time to see what exactly was/is locked out by the goofy TTS way of things. Go check it out. The only thing locked out that made me PO was the TSSM marriage is locked out. Sigh.... almost ALL of the functions of the DT STILL work as long as it is not 'tune' related. ABS, etc all WORK! I REALLY wish TTS would fix a bit of this, for sure.

 

Thats GREAT. If you see ping in the knock recordings, it WILL be by RPM AND MAP axis. Instead of pulling it out using RPM, lower it a bit using the MAP table. Same way around the barn. WHat you wish to do is play with those negative numbers, if when cold it does NOT ping... instead of , oh say... -2.00, change that to -3.00 in that area.

There will be lots MORE tming pulled when you review the knock events. That is because fast retard will pull a bunch and pull it fast. Thing to remember, if knock retard pulls, it can be doing that , when a simple ONE degree of change can fix it.

 

It's all good. I'm not a hater of anyone or anything. Not my style. I just state my opinion and others can disagree or agree and its all good, at least from my perspective. I don't make any $ off my opinions so they stand on their own for good or bad. There's always a money-back guarantee on using my opinions.

I for one think that if you used TTS and were on a trip and needed dealer service, having the dealer locked out of your ECM would simply be unacceptable to me. All the benefits you suggest are in TTS would be wiped out in a moment by having my bike's ECM locked down by a 3rd party's software that in my opinion has no right to lock down my bike's computer.

No other tuning software maker takes this approach to tuning and IMO its an unacceptable trade-off. That alone would prevent me from ever wanting TTS loaded to my bike. But for others that may not be a big deal. It certainly would be for me.

 

Didn't you mean to say change the value to -1.00? If it's not pinging why retard it more - am I looking at this bass ackwards?

OK, so looking at a data log from last year I see that all spark knock events happened between 230* - 253* ET (I can only assume this is Head Temp) and 96.8* - 104* IAT (Intake Air Temp). Spark Knock ranged from 0.5 - 2.5 and there were 94 instances out of 3700 samples. Pinging was not audible or felt, it could only be seen in the data logs.

Real Life Example:



So, just looking at the MAP areas of 6x.xx kpa I would enter maybe -1.50 on the 118*F line and then monitor that? I'm thinking that making changes in this table will also affect the amount of Adaptive Knock Retard Learned. And, should reduce the amount of knock retard applied by the ECM when needed?

Why not just make the adjustment in the Main Spark Table?

 

It sounds like you are thinking about head temp / engine temp. If I understand this correctly, the Spark Adjust by Air Temp reading is the IAT. The trike would call for a lower temp to begin the adjustment due to the my weight and heat trapped by all the fenders. If you look at some of your data log tables you will see what you IATs are. I would've thought my temps would have been a whole lot higher, similar to your initial gut reaction.

 

Based on such small knock events (less than 2.5 degrees) in only the front cylinder, I definitely would not reduce the spark tables, at least not yet. Getting the VEs right is the far better approach. If you had knock events that were requiring 5, 6 or 7 degrees than I'd be looking at getting the VEs correct followed by datalogging to find the general areas of the map where reducing a few degrees of advance could address the knock.

 

I agree with Heatwave on the VE section of the tune first.

Here is what I want for you to do, Go do some tuning runs. Get all of the runs to the point that there is LESS than a 5% change across the board, or less.

AFter this, then go and try to make the bike ping while running the knock stuff.

THEN come back and tell us what you find. Right NOW is the 'cold' part of the year. Right NOW is when you want to adjust the spark knock out of the bike using the MAIN spark tables. I want you to get it as good as possible, AND this will give you a reason to ride the bike! YAY!

During this spark knock hunting. Once the VEs are tuned in place, look for the knock and do NOT remove the amount being reported as being pulled. I would bet those little 1.5* events? Half a degree LESS than what it is right now WILL stop the events. I do NOT explain well ans is why I am a retarded person. Fast retard will pull MORE than necessary. That IS how it is made.... save the engine and save it fast...

If a half point doesn't 'fix' it, then add another half a point. WOrk ALL of the knock areas. If one of the areas can't be fixed with a degree or two, and you have dialed in all the VEs, come back, report, because THEN we could try to add a teenie bit of fuel.

ANyways, if you get the spark table all in shape NOW, in the spring... when it gets to 900* outside and it starts pinging again, THAT IS WHEN we will remove spark using the temp correction tables.

See those negative numbers on the temp correction tables? -5.00 for example? That means at that point on the table, the table is ALREADY reducing the spark from what is in the main spark table by 5*. All - numbers are removing spark advance. I like to even try to use a couple + numbers to help when it is REALLY cold up here.

So, Member Delta, go get that bike 'tuned' the best you can as far as the VEs etc goes. Set your main spark tables with no ping. WHat I do, takes more work is this... I get it to ping in a LOT of areas, back it off to just the point of no ping... then back the table off 2* across the board. This is a BUNCH of maybe needless work, But, I, me, likes to SEE where ping comes in, and the 2* is my safety margin.

This summer, then, when pinging raises its ugly head.... THAT is the time we adjust using the temp correction tables. You WILL have the 'true' spark table in the main table, what we will change then is the knock events that occur simply from too much heat.

Does this make sense to you?

I will gladly try again if need be, Sir!

Oh, so that I can help some of you further, I am buying a PV tonight from a fellow member. In that manner, I can change, in my head, what the different companies call the tables. I want to come back here and give member Delta a little timing trick that will make for a way nicer acting bike.

 

I have a Mac book laptop, Can I run WinPV on it?

Also, how do I get to the gauges feature? I just picked up the bike from winter storage and have not had any time with the PV as it was installed right before it went into storage- the small owners manual does not have the info.

 

Good plan of attack to square away the slight knock in this map.