sneaky starting problem
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3rd Gear
Joined: Jun 2007
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sneaky starting problem
ok im new to harleys, and just bought my first one a few weeks ago. its a 77 ironhead 1000 with electric start. i have had to do quite a bit to it so far and am finding that i dont think it will ever end, so im just gonna have to learn to live with it. its one of those labor of love things. but right now im dealing with a starting problem that im not sure about. i can charge the battery(which im going to replace) and the bike will start fine. then i go for a ride and come back and the bike wont start. but then if i come back in like an hour or so it will start (when its cooled down) but if i leave it too long it wont start. and if when im riding it and its still hot and i shut it off and it wont start back up the only way to start it then is to push start it. it wont take a jump when its hot from a charger or jumper cables. im hoping that its just a bad battery but if this sounds like another harley problem let me know so i dont go chasing my tail on this one. thanks Dan
Tourer
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 459
Likes: 1
From: Florida
RE: sneaky starting problem
Check the BASICS always. Are the cables clean, no oil,corrosion and tight? Does the battery hold a charge? Is there proper water level in battery? Is the Generator charging the battery at the correct voltage.
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,035
Likes: 17
From: Houston Texas
RE: sneaky starting problem
Please clarify a couple of things for us:
When you say it will not start, do you mean the engine does not start, or do you mean the starter motor does not turn over?
If the bike will start by pushing it.....then there is enough battery power available to make the ignition system work. This does not require a lot of juice. Turning the starter motor takes a lot more amperage of course.
If the bike will not take a jump......then that makes me think you have:
Really dirty cable connections
Loose cable connections
Bad (broken or partially separated) cables
A bad ground connection
or, a combination of the above
Check at both the battery end and the starter end of the cables. If the headlights burn brightly but the starter will not turn over, then the problem is likely to be with the solenoid or the starter relay. My money goes on the solenoid.
As you know, when you jump the bike you are actually installing another battery. If this does not work, a new battery is not going to do any better. So find the bad cables or connection.
After you do that, then the next step is to see if the generator is recharging the battery....or is the battery any good. It may need replacement. But before doing that, make it start using a jumper..........pg
edit note: Now, if it is the engine that will not start when it is hot (starter motor turning over OK) then that is another problem entirely.
When you say it will not start, do you mean the engine does not start, or do you mean the starter motor does not turn over?
If the bike will start by pushing it.....then there is enough battery power available to make the ignition system work. This does not require a lot of juice. Turning the starter motor takes a lot more amperage of course.
If the bike will not take a jump......then that makes me think you have:
Really dirty cable connections
Loose cable connections
Bad (broken or partially separated) cables
A bad ground connection
or, a combination of the above
Check at both the battery end and the starter end of the cables. If the headlights burn brightly but the starter will not turn over, then the problem is likely to be with the solenoid or the starter relay. My money goes on the solenoid.
As you know, when you jump the bike you are actually installing another battery. If this does not work, a new battery is not going to do any better. So find the bad cables or connection.
After you do that, then the next step is to see if the generator is recharging the battery....or is the battery any good. It may need replacement. But before doing that, make it start using a jumper..........pg
edit note: Now, if it is the engine that will not start when it is hot (starter motor turning over OK) then that is another problem entirely.
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3rd Gear
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 7
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From:
RE: sneaky starting problem
sorry about being vague on the exact problem there, and thank you both for your help. when the engine is hot the starter wont turn over, even with a jump(it just clicks). but when the bike has sat for a while and cooled a bit it will start with out a jump, on its own power.
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,035
Likes: 17
From: Houston Texas
RE: sneaky starting problem
OK, now I have a better picture of what is going on.
When the machine is hot and will not start (only the solenoid clicks)....does the headlight burn with full illumination? If not, then it is a low battery. If yes, then it is something in the starter circuit, and I suspect it is in the solenoid.
There are a set of contacts inside that may be pitted. The clicking indicates that voltage is getting to the solenoid however. The contacts are where the heavy posts for the starter and the battery are located.
Test the solenoid this way:
Using a 12v battery, connect a wire from the battery negative post to ground (on the machine).
Connect another wire from the batt neg post to the starter terminal on the solenoid. Note:This wire is to have a 12v test bulb wired into it.
Connect a wire from the battery positive post to the solenoid battery terminal.
Last, connect a wire to the small terminal on the solenoid. This terminal is the one connected to the starter relay and starter button located elsewhere on the bike. Leave the other end of the wire unconnected for now.
Now when you touch the end of this wire to the battery positive post. the test bulb should light. If it does, the solenoid is closing and this indicates the solenoid is working.
But because the starter motor does turn when the engine is cool, but does not when it gets hot...only do the above test when it is hot and will not start. A bulb that does not light up indicates the contacts are not closing, so buy a new solenoid.
There are other possible solutions to other things that could be the problem, but you have to start somewhere and the solenoid is the place..........pg
When the machine is hot and will not start (only the solenoid clicks)....does the headlight burn with full illumination? If not, then it is a low battery. If yes, then it is something in the starter circuit, and I suspect it is in the solenoid.
There are a set of contacts inside that may be pitted. The clicking indicates that voltage is getting to the solenoid however. The contacts are where the heavy posts for the starter and the battery are located.
Test the solenoid this way:
Using a 12v battery, connect a wire from the battery negative post to ground (on the machine).
Connect another wire from the batt neg post to the starter terminal on the solenoid. Note:This wire is to have a 12v test bulb wired into it.
Connect a wire from the battery positive post to the solenoid battery terminal.
Last, connect a wire to the small terminal on the solenoid. This terminal is the one connected to the starter relay and starter button located elsewhere on the bike. Leave the other end of the wire unconnected for now.
Now when you touch the end of this wire to the battery positive post. the test bulb should light. If it does, the solenoid is closing and this indicates the solenoid is working.
But because the starter motor does turn when the engine is cool, but does not when it gets hot...only do the above test when it is hot and will not start. A bulb that does not light up indicates the contacts are not closing, so buy a new solenoid.
There are other possible solutions to other things that could be the problem, but you have to start somewhere and the solenoid is the place..........pg
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