parts advice
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Intermediate
Joined: Jun 2007
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From:
parts advice
Hello all. Well,I got my bike down for some fixing. Ineed a new trans sprocket and a new chain. Both are shot butI don't to know what brand are good. I also need to replace my centrifical advance. It's worn out also.A mechanic told meI need to go with a electronic ignition, points are crap and the bike will never run as goodas if it had them. He also told meI need to sell the bike becuse its got solid lifters and they are a problem that will plague me and that I need a bike with a 5 speed. I think he is a nut case, people rode bikes before bealtdrive 5 speed hydrolic lifters where standerd equipment.
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,035
Likes: 17
From: Houston Texas
RE: parts advice
Yeah well, your mechanic friend has all kinds of useless advice doesn't he? Sounds like he also has an opinion, so tell him he is wrong.
There is nothing to be gained by putting in an electronic ignition. When it goes bad you will not be able to repair it. The points only need infrequent checking of the points gap. If the advance unit is worn out, simply replace what is needed. Did this same mechanic diagnose the advance unit?
You need to sell the bike because it has solid lifters? Huh??? That's the biggest laugh of all. This guy is out to lunch.
You really need something with 5 speeds? Really. No, as long as I need to change transmissions, make that a 10 speed please.
This guy has never worked on anything without a belt drive and older than 1985 is my best guess.
For a serious moment here....get the replacement sprocket from J&P Cycles. This will leave you making a choice of the number of teeth you want to run. If you like the way your bike rides now then get the same number of teeth. If your engine seems to turn a high rpm for the speed you are running on the highway, then I would get a sprocket with 1 additional tooth on it. I run a 23T on mine and that is a good sprocket for the highway.
Buy your chain local at a chain-bearing supply house. Just get a Diamond 148 (5/8x3/8 links) in the length you need and include a couple of extra links to take of an additional tooth, should you decide to move up..........pg
There is nothing to be gained by putting in an electronic ignition. When it goes bad you will not be able to repair it. The points only need infrequent checking of the points gap. If the advance unit is worn out, simply replace what is needed. Did this same mechanic diagnose the advance unit?
You need to sell the bike because it has solid lifters? Huh??? That's the biggest laugh of all. This guy is out to lunch.
You really need something with 5 speeds? Really. No, as long as I need to change transmissions, make that a 10 speed please.
This guy has never worked on anything without a belt drive and older than 1985 is my best guess.
For a serious moment here....get the replacement sprocket from J&P Cycles. This will leave you making a choice of the number of teeth you want to run. If you like the way your bike rides now then get the same number of teeth. If your engine seems to turn a high rpm for the speed you are running on the highway, then I would get a sprocket with 1 additional tooth on it. I run a 23T on mine and that is a good sprocket for the highway.
Buy your chain local at a chain-bearing supply house. Just get a Diamond 148 (5/8x3/8 links) in the length you need and include a couple of extra links to take of an additional tooth, should you decide to move up..........pg
Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,033
Likes: 29
RE: parts advice
Back when I did a lot of interstate riding on my Ironhead, I also used a 23T sprocket. It worked great in lowering the vibes.
I ran a Tsubaki nickel chain for about 10 years on my bike. I went thru 2 in about 35k miles. They are steep at about 110 bucks each.
Just recently, I tried a different brand of nickel plated chain. It is made by Western Power Sports and was only 26 bucks. I like nickel because the plating is self lubing. I just occaisonally wipe the chain down with WD-40 to clean it and keep the pins from rusting.
http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com...amp;division=6
I also say replace what needs to be replace in your ignition and keep the points. I have good luck with Blue Streak points for a Chevy 250 six cylinder.
[IMG]local://upfiles/17633/56B8E124DDC74DF8AB181A2F24F2B29B.jpg[/IMG]
I ran a Tsubaki nickel chain for about 10 years on my bike. I went thru 2 in about 35k miles. They are steep at about 110 bucks each.
Just recently, I tried a different brand of nickel plated chain. It is made by Western Power Sports and was only 26 bucks. I like nickel because the plating is self lubing. I just occaisonally wipe the chain down with WD-40 to clean it and keep the pins from rusting.
http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com...amp;division=6
I also say replace what needs to be replace in your ignition and keep the points. I have good luck with Blue Streak points for a Chevy 250 six cylinder.
[IMG]local://upfiles/17633/56B8E124DDC74DF8AB181A2F24F2B29B.jpg[/IMG]
Tourer
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 328
Likes: 2
RE: parts advice
Your motorcycle is not defective, your mechanic is. Find yourself another mechanic.
Sprockets and chains are available from dozens of vendors. I shop around, but most times I wind up buying from J&P Cycles or Dennis Kirk.
I would recommend an o-ring chain. It is pricey, and you might have to do a little grinding on the sprocket cover to give it clearance. It only requires an occasional shot of lube to keep it from rusting and it doesn't sling oil all over everything. The Revtech chain I bought is guaranteed for twenty thousand miles, and it looks like it is going to last beyond that figure.
The advance unit and parts for it are available from VTwin Mfg. Co. through J&P or Zoom. It is made in mainland China, but is reasonably good quality.
Prior to about 1980 or therabouts, every engine in the world ran with points. Points are good, and there is nothing about them that can't be fixed on the side of the road.Try that with electronic ignition. I actually have a Mallory Unilite ignition module on my sporty, but I still carry all the old points stuff in my toolkit in case the electronics crap out.
Ironheads forever!
Sprockets and chains are available from dozens of vendors. I shop around, but most times I wind up buying from J&P Cycles or Dennis Kirk.
I would recommend an o-ring chain. It is pricey, and you might have to do a little grinding on the sprocket cover to give it clearance. It only requires an occasional shot of lube to keep it from rusting and it doesn't sling oil all over everything. The Revtech chain I bought is guaranteed for twenty thousand miles, and it looks like it is going to last beyond that figure.
The advance unit and parts for it are available from VTwin Mfg. Co. through J&P or Zoom. It is made in mainland China, but is reasonably good quality.
Prior to about 1980 or therabouts, every engine in the world ran with points. Points are good, and there is nothing about them that can't be fixed on the side of the road.Try that with electronic ignition. I actually have a Mallory Unilite ignition module on my sporty, but I still carry all the old points stuff in my toolkit in case the electronics crap out.
Ironheads forever!
Cruiser
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 149
Likes: 2
RE: parts advice
What an idiot! I'm just another member of the chorus on this one.
I'm glad someone finally told me, after forty years, all my bikes were no good. Funny thing is they still run great, solid lifters and all. Must be some kind of a fluke.
Take Pinion's advice and buy a new countershaft sprocket and a diamond chain.
As far as electronic ignitions go, he has a good point, too. I mentioned in another post that a friend of mine has gone to the inside-the-distributor type of electronic ignition on both his 49 and 61 panhead with good results (for sale on eBay and other places for about $155). The great thing about this part is you can run your stock coil and stick the old distributor plate in the bag, and if you have trouble swap them out in about the same time it takes to change a set points. If you're going for a stock look, it is also completely undetectable (unless you pop the top off the distributor).
On the other hand, the bike will run perfectly well on what Harley gave it if you do the maintenance.
I'm glad someone finally told me, after forty years, all my bikes were no good. Funny thing is they still run great, solid lifters and all. Must be some kind of a fluke.
Take Pinion's advice and buy a new countershaft sprocket and a diamond chain.
As far as electronic ignitions go, he has a good point, too. I mentioned in another post that a friend of mine has gone to the inside-the-distributor type of electronic ignition on both his 49 and 61 panhead with good results (for sale on eBay and other places for about $155). The great thing about this part is you can run your stock coil and stick the old distributor plate in the bag, and if you have trouble swap them out in about the same time it takes to change a set points. If you're going for a stock look, it is also completely undetectable (unless you pop the top off the distributor).
On the other hand, the bike will run perfectly well on what Harley gave it if you do the maintenance.
Thread Starter
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Intermediate
Joined: Jun 2007
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RE: parts advice
Yes, my advance unit was diagnosed by the mechanic that diagnosed my bike as junk. The reasoning behind the diagnosis was that there is brown dust in the distributor that's the same stuff and because my back spark plug fouls out and is wet. Because the front plug is not wet but still black,I had thought it was to much fuel. If the advance unit diagnoses sounds sound let me know please.
This all started becauseI need someone to look at my clutch. I can not get the thing to release its gears. Maybe its becauseI bought the cheapo Alto parts, orI reused my spacers and am thinking I need to buy new ones, and my clutch cableinto the case needs a helecoil. Any advice on my clutch woes?
Thanks, Ratbike
This all started becauseI need someone to look at my clutch. I can not get the thing to release its gears. Maybe its becauseI bought the cheapo Alto parts, orI reused my spacers and am thinking I need to buy new ones, and my clutch cableinto the case needs a helecoil. Any advice on my clutch woes?
Thanks, Ratbike
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,035
Likes: 17
From: Houston Texas
RE: parts advice
To start with.....
The centrifigal advance unit parts are 100% metal. There is nothing that can wear out and leave brown powder.There are 2 springs which can break, but this is rare.
The brown powder is coming from the fiber foot of the ignition points wearing on contact with the ignition cam lobes. This is normal. All this wear does is close the points gap slightly. It will have no affect on the engine fouling a spark plug.
OK, let's move to the spark plugs. There are 2 types of fouling.
Fuel fouling..... is a temporary thing. Like when you flood the engine. Give it a minute, the excess fuel evaporates, and things are fine. If you have a fuel foul it will affect both plugs, not just one plug.
The other is oil fouling......not a temporary thing. This is something that needs to be repaired. The oil fouling comes from any and all of the following conditions:
worn valve guides, worn or broken piston rings, worn bores and other such serious stuff. This is a condition that can, and often does, affect only one cylinder. If the condition was due to normal excess wear, then most likely both plugs would be fouled.
So, it may be possible that you have a valve guide or ring problem. The only way to tell is to pull the affected head and perhaps then you will have to pull the cylinder and measure it for wear.
I would look first at the valve guide and the cylinder wall before pulling the cylinder. If there is a deep groove around the top of the cylinder or a scoring on the cylinder walls, then you have found the problem. You need new pistons and a rebore of both cylinders. I am not saying this is the case, just telling you what you face if you find damage or great wear to the cylinder.
Now, if things are a little tight in the finance dept right now and you just want to get the bike running and ride a little you could buy yourself a spark plug that is 1 to 2 heat ranges hotter and run that in the bad cylinder. If that still fouls the plug then get a thick copper washer from the auto parts store and put under that hot plug. This in effect makes the plug even hotter (in range) and also picks up the end of the plug a bit higher in the head. The result is the tip is further away from the piston and it may not oil foul as easy. This is only a stop gap however. It will need to be fixed, and sooner than later.
The clutch issue.....The old spacers are fine to reuse....as long as they are all the same length. If they have worn to different lengths then the result is a misalignment and the clutch will drag.
There is another issue that you need to be aware of....do you know how to adjust the clutch release cam? I ask because you mention that you need a Heli-coil in the cover. If this is where the cable screws into the cover, then it is part of the cam adjustment. Get the Heli-coil put in and then lets get back on the clutch adjustment subject. OK?...................pg
The centrifigal advance unit parts are 100% metal. There is nothing that can wear out and leave brown powder.There are 2 springs which can break, but this is rare.
The brown powder is coming from the fiber foot of the ignition points wearing on contact with the ignition cam lobes. This is normal. All this wear does is close the points gap slightly. It will have no affect on the engine fouling a spark plug.
OK, let's move to the spark plugs. There are 2 types of fouling.
Fuel fouling..... is a temporary thing. Like when you flood the engine. Give it a minute, the excess fuel evaporates, and things are fine. If you have a fuel foul it will affect both plugs, not just one plug.
The other is oil fouling......not a temporary thing. This is something that needs to be repaired. The oil fouling comes from any and all of the following conditions:
worn valve guides, worn or broken piston rings, worn bores and other such serious stuff. This is a condition that can, and often does, affect only one cylinder. If the condition was due to normal excess wear, then most likely both plugs would be fouled.
So, it may be possible that you have a valve guide or ring problem. The only way to tell is to pull the affected head and perhaps then you will have to pull the cylinder and measure it for wear.
I would look first at the valve guide and the cylinder wall before pulling the cylinder. If there is a deep groove around the top of the cylinder or a scoring on the cylinder walls, then you have found the problem. You need new pistons and a rebore of both cylinders. I am not saying this is the case, just telling you what you face if you find damage or great wear to the cylinder.
Now, if things are a little tight in the finance dept right now and you just want to get the bike running and ride a little you could buy yourself a spark plug that is 1 to 2 heat ranges hotter and run that in the bad cylinder. If that still fouls the plug then get a thick copper washer from the auto parts store and put under that hot plug. This in effect makes the plug even hotter (in range) and also picks up the end of the plug a bit higher in the head. The result is the tip is further away from the piston and it may not oil foul as easy. This is only a stop gap however. It will need to be fixed, and sooner than later.
The clutch issue.....The old spacers are fine to reuse....as long as they are all the same length. If they have worn to different lengths then the result is a misalignment and the clutch will drag.
There is another issue that you need to be aware of....do you know how to adjust the clutch release cam? I ask because you mention that you need a Heli-coil in the cover. If this is where the cable screws into the cover, then it is part of the cam adjustment. Get the Heli-coil put in and then lets get back on the clutch adjustment subject. OK?...................pg
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Thread Starter
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Intermediate
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From:
RE: parts advice
Here is that blasted clutch. If you notice anything out of the ordinary please let me know.
First I installed the backing plate.
Then the spacers.
Then friction plate - steel plate - friction plate - steel plate - for a total of 8 each.
They are all going into this backet and hub.
Then one outer drive plate, a steel retaining ring, the spring and the release disk with the hub facing in.
I am mashing it all the way to the spacers.
Then I adjust the cable so that it is as short as it goes and screw the adjuster screw outward so it is not touching anything. Then I push the cable inward so the release arm is all the way back towards the rear of the bike. Then I adjust the clutch screw inward just until it touches. Then I adjust the cable until I have about an 1/8 inch of play in the clutch lever.
Then theblasted thing will not release. Please tell me what I am doing wrong.
[IMG]local://upfiles/34768/43975791DF3B4D10A0F1D6AC3ABDF04D.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]local://upfiles/34768/E3C10C950A1A44E686C02D02289ACDA6.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]local://upfiles/34768/079C25ABA1B24168A52351EB8BFE2545.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]local://upfiles/34768/C7863627C3214BF7A64D7AA5F57BD632.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]local://upfiles/34768/A9BF0A06A32B47D694301B2DDAC39BD9.jpg[/IMG]
First I installed the backing plate.
Then the spacers.
Then friction plate - steel plate - friction plate - steel plate - for a total of 8 each.
They are all going into this backet and hub.
Then one outer drive plate, a steel retaining ring, the spring and the release disk with the hub facing in.
I am mashing it all the way to the spacers.
Then I adjust the cable so that it is as short as it goes and screw the adjuster screw outward so it is not touching anything. Then I push the cable inward so the release arm is all the way back towards the rear of the bike. Then I adjust the clutch screw inward just until it touches. Then I adjust the cable until I have about an 1/8 inch of play in the clutch lever.
Then theblasted thing will not release. Please tell me what I am doing wrong.
[IMG]local://upfiles/34768/43975791DF3B4D10A0F1D6AC3ABDF04D.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]local://upfiles/34768/E3C10C950A1A44E686C02D02289ACDA6.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]local://upfiles/34768/079C25ABA1B24168A52351EB8BFE2545.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]local://upfiles/34768/C7863627C3214BF7A64D7AA5F57BD632.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]local://upfiles/34768/A9BF0A06A32B47D694301B2DDAC39BD9.jpg[/IMG]