Timing question.
Thread Starter
|
Cruiser
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 200
Likes: 39
From: Assonet MA
Timing question.
To get my timing to 40 degrees I have had to retard it so far over I am almost out of adjustment. I know these guys are all different but what do I read into that, if anything?
Thanks,
John F.
Thanks,
John F.
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,035
Likes: 17
From: Houston Texas
I am not sure I understand how you are determining the timing to be at 40°?
When the engine is sitting there and not running, let's call that in a retarded timing state.
Now when we start up the engine and it goes up to around 2000 rpm the centrifical weights of the advance unit fly outward to advance the timing position to full advance.
This is the reason you need to set the timing when the engine is running at 2000 rpm (approx) and center the slash mark up in the hole. That is when you have obtained correct timing at 40° BTC.
What you say makes me think you are trying to 'static' time it. Perhaps I misunderstand what you are saying......... pg
Thread Starter
|
Cruiser
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 200
Likes: 39
From: Assonet MA
Pinion bike is running at 2000 RPM. Standard timing proceedure with light.
I know we are both getting used to it not running.
I need to rotate CCW to bring the mark to appro. 40 deg. CCW is retarding, Yes? As I said using up almost all of the adjusting slot.
Mick 74 XLH w/ points.
I know we are both getting used to it not running.
I need to rotate CCW to bring the mark to appro. 40 deg. CCW is retarding, Yes? As I said using up almost all of the adjusting slot.
Mick 74 XLH w/ points.
Using up all the adjusting slot sounds to me like you are using the incorrect timing mark on the flywheel. This is an old bike and you cannot be certain that the flywheel is original, so you cannot count on what any person or book or whatever says is the correct timing mark. Position the front cylinder at TDC on the compression stroke and look in the timing hole to see what is the mark. Then you have it right for sure.
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,035
Likes: 17
From: Houston Texas
Pinion bike is running at 2000 RPM. Standard timing proceedure with light.
I know we are both getting used to it not running.
I need to rotate CCW to bring the mark to appro. 40 deg. CCW is retarding, Yes? As I said using up almost all of the adjusting slot.
Mick 74 XLH w/ points.
I know we are both getting used to it not running.
I need to rotate CCW to bring the mark to appro. 40 deg. CCW is retarding, Yes? As I said using up almost all of the adjusting slot.
Mick 74 XLH w/ points.
I believe you most likely have the original flywheels, and even if you did not, the replacements would have the same timing marks located in the same place as long as the flywheel set was for a 1972 or later.
Now we open the can of worms. You question has me discovering a stated difference in two different places in the same service manual that I never noticed until your question surfaced.
Under the engine specifications pg 3-1 it states:
Ignition timing.........
breaker points gap..........1970 = .020
1971 & later = .018
Since that is when the distributor changed design (1971) I have always used that (.018) and continue to do so.
Here is where I find the difference in the manual........
Ignition timing (advanced):
1971 and earlier.........45° BTC
1972 and later............40° BTC
Now we move to the section of the service manual under circuit breaker pg 5-11 where the circuit breaker is described we can see the illustration of the timing mark (fig 5-16) that states item 12 is the advanced timing mark on the flywheel for 1971 and later 40° BTC.
Clearly this does not agree with with what we previously just looked at on pg 3-1!
So I go look at my original owner manual for my 1971 to compare to the service manual.
It states on page 4 under Specifications........
Circuit breaker point gap = .020 (???...I have always used .018)
Spark Timing (advance) = 45°
Is the owners manual incorrect? Is this the figures for a 1970 and earlier? I do believe that is the case, but have no proof of that.
This also clearly does not agree with the service manual info on pg 5-11 but does support the specs on pg 3-11 of the service manual.
End result..... I find the differences (mistakes) surprising!
I never deal with the actual degrees BTC but rather use the timing mark and whatever the timing advance unit throws the advance setting to. Then align the mark to the center of the hole.
In your case (1974) I believe you can feel safe dealing with a figure of 40° and a points gap of .018 being correct.
In my case (1971) while I have to wonder some, I believe the correct figure for me is a points gap of .018 and45° BTC as being correct..
I guess this is just another example of the exact timing not being that critical on a Sporty.
Attached are two pics I just made of mine showing where the slot of the backing is with the bike timed perfectly,
If anyone finds errors in this post please let me her about it,,,,,,,,,,, pg
Cruiser
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 161
Likes: 1
just a shot in the dark, have you checked you're advance weights to see that they're not stuck and not operating correctly?
Trending Topics
Thread Starter
|
Cruiser
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 200
Likes: 39
From: Assonet MA
I have my suspicions in regards to the advance. A few weeks back, after I did a head gasket repair I had my pipes glowing RED while trying to dial it in. Found a broken spring on the advance. Replaced the whole unit but it did not fit properly. Took a spring off the new unit and replaced the broken one on the old and put it back in. Ran fine for a few weeks. Opened it up to take a look the other night and all appears to be in order. I think my problem is really picking up the mark properly.I reset timing yesterday to where I "think" I am seeing the correct mark and bike is running better but not perfect. Plate is now set more to the midrange. Will keep at it until I get there.
Could be my timing light. It was made in China, as the advance unit was, and maybe I am not getting a good read.
I did notice if I go too much in either direction with the plate I can get the pipes glowing red again. Don't recall ever seeing that years ago.
I have checked compression and I maintain 125Lbs. in each cylinder. Does not appear to be a valve.
Could be my timing light. It was made in China, as the advance unit was, and maybe I am not getting a good read.
I did notice if I go too much in either direction with the plate I can get the pipes glowing red again. Don't recall ever seeing that years ago.
I have checked compression and I maintain 125Lbs. in each cylinder. Does not appear to be a valve.
HD Forum Stories
The Best of Harley-Davidson for Lifelong Riders
10 Worst Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Ever
Pouria Savadkouei
Killer Custom's Jail Break Is The Breakout That Refused to Blend In
Verdad Gallardo
Crazy Bunderbike Build Looks Amazing, But Is It Impossible to Ride?
Verdad Gallardo
Harley-Davidson Reveals Super Cool Cafe Racer Concept
Verdad Gallardo
Engraved Rebellion: Inside Bundnerbike's Glam Rock II
Verdad Gallardo
10 Motorcycles You Should Never Buy
Joe Kucinski
10 Things Harley-Davidson Needs to Fix in 2026
Verdad Gallardo
Southpaw Super Glide: A Left-Hand-Drive 1979 Harley FXE Built to Fit the Rider
Verdad Gallardo
The Best and Worst Harley-Davidson Moves of 2025
Verdad Gallardo
Novice
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
From: Long Island, NY
John does the bike start up at all and if so is it that it runs poorly?
You commented on my post the other day mentioning burying the idle screw which I had to do to keep the bike running at idle. You also mentioned it was difficult to get the mark in the window, I had similar trouble yesterday as I had to move the plate ALL the way CCW to get the line however the pipes would start to HEAT up.
Did you static time it? If so I guess it didn't help? I'm starting to think I have a simiar problem.
Danny
You commented on my post the other day mentioning burying the idle screw which I had to do to keep the bike running at idle. You also mentioned it was difficult to get the mark in the window, I had similar trouble yesterday as I had to move the plate ALL the way CCW to get the line however the pipes would start to HEAT up.
Did you static time it? If so I guess it didn't help? I'm starting to think I have a simiar problem.
Danny
Thread Starter
|
Cruiser
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 200
Likes: 39
From: Assonet MA
Right now I have it running pretty good. Starts and runs.
To back up a bit I had exactly the same situation until I fixed the advance.
Ran great for a couple of weeks and then similar situation occured. Checked the advance and it seemed OK.
Now yesterday as I was timing it I was sure I was seeing the mark at almost full CCW. If I advanced it at all the pipes would begin to glow. I played with points a bit and started over. Plate is now set a bit to the clockwise position and I'm pretty good, not perfect.
When the buried idle screw situation began I assumed it was the Mikuni so I put the S&S back on since that was the set up the last time it ran good. Same situation. It was all in the advance and timing issue. I am trying to keep it as intended. Meaning no electronic ignition but its tempting.
Bottom line is I feel I may still have problems with the advance, or the timing on this bike is extremely sensitive.
To back up a bit I had exactly the same situation until I fixed the advance.
Ran great for a couple of weeks and then similar situation occured. Checked the advance and it seemed OK.
Now yesterday as I was timing it I was sure I was seeing the mark at almost full CCW. If I advanced it at all the pipes would begin to glow. I played with points a bit and started over. Plate is now set a bit to the clockwise position and I'm pretty good, not perfect.
When the buried idle screw situation began I assumed it was the Mikuni so I put the S&S back on since that was the set up the last time it ran good. Same situation. It was all in the advance and timing issue. I am trying to keep it as intended. Meaning no electronic ignition but its tempting.
Bottom line is I feel I may still have problems with the advance, or the timing on this bike is extremely sensitive.