'65 xlch trans issue...

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Sep 16, 2009 | 01:27 PM

ledsledz

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4th Gear

Joined: Aug 2009

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'65 xlch trans issue...

I recently acquired a 1965 XLCH Sportster in relatively complete, but basket form. I managed to get it put together with the hindrance of a Clymer manual (Factory manual has been ordered, but not here yet), and got it fired up and tuned. I put it in first gear, rolled out of the driveway, and got it up to speed. When I shifted into second, however, the transmission locked up and rear wheel totally stopped turning. When the bike finally stopped, I was able to get it out of second, and the rear wheel freed up, by rolling it backwards with the clutch in.
Any idea what happened, and how to repair?
I have 25 years automotive mechanic experience, as well as working on my own bikes. Mostly jap stuff, but I also own a '68 Triumph Tiger chopper with a kicker.

Sep 16, 2009 | 06:37 PM

piniongear

Stellar HDF Member

Joined: Feb 2006

Posts: 3,035

Likes: 17

From: Houston Texas

Quote:

Originally Posted by ledsledz

It is really difficult to diagnose the problem from afar, but I suggest you remove the transmission again, then wait for that factory manual.
After you have the manual go through the complete assembly and shimming exercise following the factory manual instructions.
You may have assembled the trans with something not correct which causes the lockup when you shift out of first. If it locks the wheel it is a serious problem. The gears are not engaging properly on both the shafts (main and counter shafts) and this must be fixed.

Another thing to watch out for is this.........
The mainshaft roller bearing takes 23 rollers. These are loose, uncaged bearings. Item #4 in the pic below.
What happens is you install the trans and the door into the machine.
As the door goes on the dowels, it is not quite lined up and you pull the door back toward you just a little bit. Then put it back in place and it goes on without a problem.
What has happened though is this.....
When you retracted the door, one (or more) of the bearings was drawn out and fell to the bottom of the trans. I cannot count the number of times this has happened to me, even though I am well aware of the problem.

(But, that said, a dropped bearing is not going to cause the lockup problem.)

I cannot get the door back on in one shot myself. I must always make at least a second effort.
Use grease on the rollers to help hold them in place. When a bearing drops you cannot see it until the next time you remove the trans. So you have to be sure all 23 are in place when you button up the door.
You do that with very careful installation........... pg

This is a pic from the factory manual to show you the gear, shim and parts makeup for the trans............

Sep 17, 2009 | 08:34 AM

gunnut1

Cruiser

Joined: Oct 2008

Posts: 121

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A common problem years ago that could cause this was a broken door, this lets the two shafts seperate. I broke one with pure torque on a "77 incher" on a fuel drag bike years ago and on a "77" inch street bike that I never "dogged". Only the Fuel motor ( high gear only) locked up .Thats why they made steel doors way back when.My 1970 "77 incher" still has the steel door in it today and never gave me another problem ( broke 2nd & 3rd gear when the two shafts seperated, rode it about 2 miles in 4th to get home!).

Sep 17, 2009 | 11:46 PM

sepixlh

Road Master

Joined: Aug 2006

Posts: 751

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From: 500 miles south from Artic Circle

There is also risks when you put steel trapdoor, when you broke gear you also brake you cases instead of aluminium trapdoor. With "normal" engine you don't need steel trapdoor.

Sep 24, 2009 | 12:22 PM

ledsledz

Thread Starter

4th Gear

Joined: Aug 2009

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Got the tranny apart...

Thanks to all for the responses. Got the trans apart this morning, found out that somehow during install, the needle bearings were displaced, destroying several of them. Looks like the race is all right, but the mainshaft roller bearing washer (# 32 in picture) has a nice chunk out of it. I am going hunting for parts, and then going to put some feeler gauges to the tranny before putting it back together.

Sep 24, 2009 | 02:19 PM

piniongear

Stellar HDF Member

Joined: Feb 2006

Posts: 3,035

Likes: 17

From: Houston Texas

Quote:

Originally Posted by ledsledz

Thanks for the update. I was pretty sure you had dropped some bearings out of the race, especially if you have never put a Sporty transmission back together.
Heed my warning regarding the bearing/shaft install. If a bearing drops you will never know it!

So use grease on all of the needles and cage and put the shafts in directly with no withdrawing the shafts at all. This will insure you have not dropped a bearing.

If you do withdraw, just remove the whole assembly and try again, because it will drop bearings........ pg

Oct 14, 2009 | 02:57 PM

ledsledz

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4th Gear

Joined: Aug 2009

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So, finally got it all apart, got my parts (Bearings, and washers) from J&P, and found the fragged bearings that had protruded through the race. Went to put it all together, and thanks to your Blowup, PG, figured out where I went wrong.
I had installed the washer, meant to retain the bearings inside the race, on the inside of the transmission. Ie: on the wrong side of the bearings. What an idiot!

Cleaned up the galled shaft, replaced the race, bearings, retaining clip, and washer. Put it all together, and rotated it through all the gears to ensure a tight, well shifting assembly.
And voila! One '65 xclh back on the road, and definately a fun ride. Now I just need to practice not downshifting when I go for the brake...
Thanks to all for the excellent advice, and help!