Hey guys,

I haven't posted in a while and this not an IH question but a shovel. This the only forum I visit so I hope you don't mind if I ask here.

The back story is I had to replace my starter, solenoid and some other related parts. The starter gear was sticking and burned up the starter.

After getting it all together I run about 10 miles and switched to reserve. Stop and filled up the tanks. After about 3 miles the engine starts missing and I lose power. Can't do better than 50 mph. Can't find any thing wrong so I head for home. Soon I can't do better than 40, then 30.

Had a wedding to go to so I didn't have time today to troubleshoot it much. But when I got home both cylinders were very hot as were both pipes. The plugs (new) we extremely gas fouled. I believe this explains the steady decrease in power. There was also gas coming out the carb into the air cleaner.

What do you think? Would a stuck float case this?

Thanks, Pat

 

Hey Pat, what year is the shovel? I think they have a Keihin butterfly carb that is basically the same as the IronHead, but 38 mm rather than 34 mm. Is this right?

I have ridden beside an IronHead that had a stuck float. All that happened was the fuel poured out the overflow tube.

However, missing and losing power does sound like lack of fuel. One time my float was too low - it would run but miss at higher speeds and when accelerating.

Since you ran down to reserve i am thinking some crud migrated from the tank to the carb. How does it look inside the tank? Rusty?

Whatever, i would remove the carb, dismantle/clean/inspect, and see what is to be found. Then try other ideas. Here's my carb cleaning notes ...

Cleaning a Carb

1. Removing it from the bike should be straight forward. First thing when it is out is to check the pilot screw setting. Turn it all the way in until gently seated counting the number of 1/4 turns; then write this number down; then reset it.

2. I put mine in a vice to remove the screws, and for much of the following work. Wrap in a shop towel; close the vice gently taking extra care with the choke and throttle linkages. The vice is a needed extra pair of hands.

3. You must be very careful handling the float so as to not change the level. You must have the official specs for setting the level as in the FM, and check it, every time you dismantle the carb, as the last thing before putting it back together.

4. The jets are made of brass, a soft metal that is easily damaged. Use an exact correct size screwdriver. I ground a medium flat blade screwdriver down to exact size on my bench grinder to access the slow jet.

5. The general appearance of the inside of the carb is not necessarily a good indication of its condition. It can look spotless and have clogged jets, or look cruddy and have clear jets.

6. Ignore any advice that says to soak or boil the whole carb in carb cleaner. Rather, clean each individual part. Do not allow any solvents to contact any rubber parts [tip of needle, o-ring seal for bowl]

7. Make a list of all of the jets and passages for your carb using the carb manual or the FM for the bike. Then ensure that you can blow either compressed air or carb cleaner thru each one.

8. Remove the pilot screw and clean the parts and the passage. The passage contains in this sequence: pilot screw, spring, washer, o-ring. These are very small parts, especially the washer and o-ring. Usually the spring will easily fall out. One time i thought the spring was not in there because it would not fall out; i obtained a new spring and could not get it in! The technique for removing the washer and o-ring is to use a pipe cleaner: stick it in the hole, twist it around, remove it - you should see the washer and o-ring on the end of the pipe cleaner.

EDIT: the washer and o-ring are part of the pilot screw assembly for 1979 on. They are not in the 1978 and earlier Keihin carbs.

Remember that the purpose of the washer is to protect the o-ring from the spring and you will always get them back in in the correct sequence.

9. Dismantle the accelerator pump assembly noting carefully the sequence and orientation of the parts. Clean and inspect the parts. Replace the diaphragm if it is cracked.

10. Check the float level then carefully put it back together. I personally find it very confusing trying to decide which way to bend the tang if it is not correct. If the fuel level is low is the float high or low? Do i need to bend the tang up or down? On the bench the carb is usually upside down, adding to the confusion. Sort all this out before making an adjustment.

Best to replace the original Phillips screws for the bowl with stainless steel socket head screws.

 

Thanks for the notes Mick, they will be helpful. The carb is a Super E. The tanks are clean. I stated the plugs were gas fouled I should have said Carbon Fouled.

Thanks for the help.

 

Check, remove and make sure that your low speed needle is not bent in some way. I had exactly the same problem with my Super E and a bent needle was the cause. Not sure what Indy did that as I've not touched the adjustments. My Bro from SC knew right away what was wrong when he visited last weekend. A timing adjustment and new needle solved the problem.

 

My notes are written for a Keihin butterfly carb, but the principles are the same.

 

Thanks for the help. Still don't have it resolved. Pulled the carb everything was straight and clean, I had recently rebuilt it. I can't find a problem with fire or fuel. I guess timing is next.

Pat

 

Here are my notes on ignition timing ...

Setting The Ignition Timing on Your IronHead

1. Checking vs Setting the Ignition Timing

You can check the timing without changing anything. Changing the timing can be done by one person but is easier with two. The ignition module or points is on the right side of the bike, the timing hole is on the left side. Easier with one person on each side than to go back and forth. Standard advance for the 1980 XL is 40`. I have mine set at about 35`. At 38` i get pinging.

2. Equipment That You Need

You need an induction timing light which you can buy at any auto supply store. Best to get the "dial back" type. These allow you to set a number [like 35`] into the timing light and then adjust the ignition module/points backplate until you are there.

If you have very well insulated spark plug wires the timing light may not sense the signal thru the wire. If this is the case then open the gap on the spark plug to 050 or more. Reset it to your normal gap [030 for points or 040 for electronic] when done with this procedure.

It also helps to have a throttle lock as the timing should be checked/set with the engine at 2500 to 3000 RPM.

You will need a piece of rubber oil line hose about 1 inch long. Press one end up against the side of a stone grinding wheel [or whatever] to make sure it is perfectly flat.

3. Front Cylinder: TDC Mark vs Advance Timing Mark

The TDC [Top Dead Center] mark is used with a dial back timing light to check the timing, or to set the timing at a specific degree, such as 37`. The advance timing mark is used to set the timing to the factory setting, such as 40`. Best is to use a dial back timing light to check or set timing.

4. To Identify Your Front Cylinder TDC Timing Mark

Remove spark plugs. Rear wheel off the ground, shift to 2nd gear, rotate wheel until it clicks, repeat until you get to top gear. Now by rotating the rear wheel you are rotating the engine. Almost impossible with the plugs in; very difficult in lower gears.

You want the front cyl to be at TDC. You can see in thru the spark plug hole, especially with a flash light; you can try inserting something soft like a pencil and watch it rise and fall as you rotate the engine with the back wheel but be careful it does not break or get stuck! You will have to hang on to the pencil with left hand while rotating the rear wheel with the right. Helps to have a good wingspan, or an extra person.

With the piston at precisely TDC look in thru the timing hole. You should see a drilled dot or a line. That is your front cylinder TDC mark. Once you know for certain what the TDC mark looks like you can check the timing.

5. Procedure, Checking The Timing

Begin with the engine at operating temperature. Remove the timing plug from the left side of the engine. Insert the 1" hose smooth end first, right tight up against the flywheel. I use a needle nose plier and twist it in there as firmly as i can. If it is not smooth and tight against the flywheel oil will spray out while you are working.

Start the engine, have it at about 2500 to 3000 RPM [it will be extra noisy with the timing plug out], set the timing light at 40`, aim it into the timing hole thru the hose. Click it down one degree at a time while you look for the timing mark. If you don't find it you may have to work up from 40`.

If it is in the 35` to 40` range and there is no pinging then you may wish to leave it as is. With pinging on acceleration you may want to retard it by about 1/16 of an inch or less [see Math below].

6. Procedure, Setting the Timing

Remove the points cover from the right side. You will be rotating the back plate so first mark it so you can get back to the current position if needed. Make a scratch mark or use a permanent magic marker, or better still a small bright red or whatever color paint mark.

To change the timing loosen the two standoffs holding the points/ignition module and rotate the backplate. Clockwise advances [larger degree number] counter-clockwise retards [smaller degree number].

7. Some Math, How Much to Rotate

The backplate has a 3" diameter = 1.5" radius.
The circumference = 2 * pi * radius = 2 * 3.14 * 1.5 inches = 9.42 inches
The circumference = 9.42 * 16 ~= 151 sixteenths of an inch.

One rotation of the backplate corresponds to two rotations of the engine, so it is like a circle that has 2 * 360 = 720 degrees. 720 / 151 ~= 5

Therefore a rotation of the backplate by about 1/16 of an inch results in a timing change of almost 5 degrees!

 

double post

 

Being the plugs were carbon fouled have you removed the inlet needle and cleaned out the needle and seat area and let a bit of fuel flow through it to be sure. You mentioned about switching to reserve, this would allow more sediment to be drawn from the tank if the screen isn't up to snuff inside the petcock. Just a thought. Sometimes the simple things are over looked.

 

i dont what else it could be but a stuck float if its pouring fuel out the carb.i wonder what happens if you hook up the carb without the bowl and see if you can shut fuel off by moving the float up.
not a silver bullet but maybe it will help....good luck