LiveWire Observations
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Tourer
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 406
Likes: 182
From: xyzzy
Observations
I was at a dealer the other day and had the opportunity to look over a Livewire. Overall, not too bad but I did see a few things that stuck out. The biggest thing I saw was the fact that the frame is bolted together at the steering head versus being welded. There are three substantial bolts holding the two frame halves to the steering head and there appears to be machined "tongue and groove" slot details where the three pieces join. Dunno if this is good, bad or indifferent. My only thought is I sure hope the ME's did plenty of finite element modeling to ensure that the bolted together frame and resulting chassis has adequate structural rigidity. The chassis doesn't have to be superbike quality so far as going around corners etc. but it at least it needs to not be a "flexiflyer" like my old Kawasaki 500 triple.
The cooling system for the motor and control electronics was somewhat disappointing for two reasons. While they used constant tension hose clamps I sure would have liked to have seen constant tension worm clamps instead. Now I realize basic constant tension clamps work well and they're quick to install but seeing constant tension worm clamps instead would have really said "premium" to me. And finally, on the hoses themselves, I saw the dreaded "China" word on them. Come on H-D, you can do better.
Two final general observations. The fact that the battery is not liquid cooled is, to me, a serious deficiency. Nissan has learned a hard lesson with their Leaf and the shortened battery life that results from not carefully controlling battery temperature. I hope not, but H-D may have the same learning experience. Then there is the matter of no real level two charging. That's just plain crazy. I know folks have said that there may be some background calculation of let's figure out how to get the bikes to the dealer more often for fast charging but I think that's just plain wrong. I hope this gets fixed, and quickly.
The cooling system for the motor and control electronics was somewhat disappointing for two reasons. While they used constant tension hose clamps I sure would have liked to have seen constant tension worm clamps instead. Now I realize basic constant tension clamps work well and they're quick to install but seeing constant tension worm clamps instead would have really said "premium" to me. And finally, on the hoses themselves, I saw the dreaded "China" word on them. Come on H-D, you can do better.
Two final general observations. The fact that the battery is not liquid cooled is, to me, a serious deficiency. Nissan has learned a hard lesson with their Leaf and the shortened battery life that results from not carefully controlling battery temperature. I hope not, but H-D may have the same learning experience. Then there is the matter of no real level two charging. That's just plain crazy. I know folks have said that there may be some background calculation of let's figure out how to get the bikes to the dealer more often for fast charging but I think that's just plain wrong. I hope this gets fixed, and quickly.
Grand HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 4,607
Likes: 3,312
From: Virginia
I was at a dealer the other day and had the opportunity to look over a Livewire. Overall, not too bad but I did see a few things that stuck out. The biggest thing I saw was the fact that the frame is bolted together at the steering head versus being welded. There are three substantial bolts holding the two frame halves to the steering head and there appears to be machined "tongue and groove" slot details where the three pieces join. Dunno if this is good, bad or indifferent. My only thought is I sure hope the ME's did plenty of finite element modeling to ensure that the bolted together frame and resulting chassis has adequate structural rigidity. The chassis doesn't have to be superbike quality so far as going around corners etc. but it at least it needs to not be a "flexiflyer" like my old Kawasaki 500 triple.
The cooling system for the motor and control electronics was somewhat disappointing for two reasons. While they used constant tension hose clamps I sure would have liked to have seen constant tension worm clamps instead. Now I realize basic constant tension clamps work well and they're quick to install but seeing constant tension worm clamps instead would have really said "premium" to me. And finally, on the hoses themselves, I saw the dreaded "China" word on them. Come on H-D, you can do better.
Two final general observations. The fact that the battery is not liquid cooled is, to me, a serious deficiency. Nissan has learned a hard lesson with their Leaf and the shortened battery life that results from not carefully controlling battery temperature. I hope not, but H-D may have the same learning experience. Then there is the matter of no real level two charging. That's just plain crazy. I know folks have said that there may be some background calculation of let's figure out how to get the bikes to the dealer more often for fast charging but I think that's just plain wrong. I hope this gets fixed, and quickly.
The cooling system for the motor and control electronics was somewhat disappointing for two reasons. While they used constant tension hose clamps I sure would have liked to have seen constant tension worm clamps instead. Now I realize basic constant tension clamps work well and they're quick to install but seeing constant tension worm clamps instead would have really said "premium" to me. And finally, on the hoses themselves, I saw the dreaded "China" word on them. Come on H-D, you can do better.
Two final general observations. The fact that the battery is not liquid cooled is, to me, a serious deficiency. Nissan has learned a hard lesson with their Leaf and the shortened battery life that results from not carefully controlling battery temperature. I hope not, but H-D may have the same learning experience. Then there is the matter of no real level two charging. That's just plain crazy. I know folks have said that there may be some background calculation of let's figure out how to get the bikes to the dealer more often for fast charging but I think that's just plain wrong. I hope this gets fixed, and quickly.
No other electric motorcycle manufacturer uses a liquid cooled battery. Zero doesn't even liquid cool their controller like Livewire does.
And I've said it at least a dozen times, Harley really screwed up with no level II charging.
Road Master
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 810
Likes: 570
From: Detroit Metro Area
*Snip
The fact that the battery is not liquid cooled is, to me, a serious deficiency. Nissan has learned a hard lesson with their Leaf and the shortened battery life that results from not carefully controlling battery temperature. I hope not, but H-D may have the same learning experience. Then there is the matter of no real level two charging. That's just plain crazy. I know folks have said that there may be some background calculation of let's figure out how to get the bikes to the dealer more often for fast charging but I think that's just plain wrong. I hope this gets fixed, and quickly.
The fact that the battery is not liquid cooled is, to me, a serious deficiency. Nissan has learned a hard lesson with their Leaf and the shortened battery life that results from not carefully controlling battery temperature. I hope not, but H-D may have the same learning experience. Then there is the matter of no real level two charging. That's just plain crazy. I know folks have said that there may be some background calculation of let's figure out how to get the bikes to the dealer more often for fast charging but I think that's just plain wrong. I hope this gets fixed, and quickly.
Banned
Joined: May 2018
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From: US
Road Captain
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 544
Likes: 61
From: San Diego
there is a reason that HD wants you to wall charge FOUR TIMES for every SINGLE DC charge.
Road Captain
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 544
Likes: 61
From: San Diego
DC fast charging is definitely the reason for needing liquid cooling. I agree with you that that is why they want you to limit DC
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Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 2,773
Likes: 2,261
From: Ft. Wayne IN
I went to my local HD dealer yesterday to pick up a rack for my new Tour Pak. On my way out, I noticed that they had 3 Livewires on display and gave them a quick look.
I was surprised at how small they look, how high up the seat is and how cheap the seat looks. Really looks like a street bike, which it is. Maybe it's just me.
Went by the service department to say "Hey" to a couple of the guys I know and asked them about Livewires. One of the mechanics said that the dealership sent him to HD for training on how to work on them. Claimed he was only 1 of 2 mechanics in Indiana who've been through the training. The were very enthusiastic about the bikes (they are both pretty young; 1 in 20's the other in mid-30s). They said that that they pre-sold their first 3 and that the 3 on display were already sold. A bit surprising.
I was surprised at how small they look, how high up the seat is and how cheap the seat looks. Really looks like a street bike, which it is. Maybe it's just me.
Went by the service department to say "Hey" to a couple of the guys I know and asked them about Livewires. One of the mechanics said that the dealership sent him to HD for training on how to work on them. Claimed he was only 1 of 2 mechanics in Indiana who've been through the training. The were very enthusiastic about the bikes (they are both pretty young; 1 in 20's the other in mid-30s). They said that that they pre-sold their first 3 and that the 3 on display were already sold. A bit surprising.
Last edited by Steve Sportster; Feb 8, 2020 at 05:33 AM. Reason: correct a number
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Thread Starter
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Tourer
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 406
Likes: 182
From: xyzzy
A follow up. My particular dealer now has six Livewire bikes on hand, up from the two that were at the dealer during my initial visit at the end of January. Sad to say, I don't think they have sold the two that were on hand for my initial visit (I kept track of the stock numbers) nor any of the other new arrivals. Sigh.
