LiveWire Observations
HD EFI Guru
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,502
Likes: 4,803
I think Harley's choice to not use Level II charging was a big mistake. There is so much more Level II charging infrastructure out there. I changed jobs 3 months ago, but both of my work locations had Level II chargers in the parking garage. To just ride back and forth to work I wouldn't need to recharge, but if I wanted to make other stops on the way it would be nice to charge up during the day on one of those Level II chargers.
But I don't know how much space and weight adding a Level II charger along with the Level I and Level III chargers would add. From the pictures I have seen of the "Tank" removed there is not a whole lot of extra space on the Livewire.
When I went to the Livewire demo truck last August I talked with one of the engineers there and mentioned the lack of Level II charging. He said they hear that complaint often, that he couldn't say anything, but to expect an announcement soon. That was 9 months ago, so I don't know what his definition of "soon" is, but it's not the same as mine.
I think that when Harley made the decision to make the Livewire they decided Level III Fast DC charging was the future of EV's and that they would build the Livewire for the future not the past.
I also think that Harley should have just licensed Tesla charging technology so you could use any Tesla fast charging station. With that you could pretty much ride cross country.
But I don't know how much space and weight adding a Level II charger along with the Level I and Level III chargers would add. From the pictures I have seen of the "Tank" removed there is not a whole lot of extra space on the Livewire.
When I went to the Livewire demo truck last August I talked with one of the engineers there and mentioned the lack of Level II charging. He said they hear that complaint often, that he couldn't say anything, but to expect an announcement soon. That was 9 months ago, so I don't know what his definition of "soon" is, but it's not the same as mine.
I think that when Harley made the decision to make the Livewire they decided Level III Fast DC charging was the future of EV's and that they would build the Livewire for the future not the past.
I also think that Harley should have just licensed Tesla charging technology so you could use any Tesla fast charging station. With that you could pretty much ride cross country.
Grand HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 4,607
Likes: 3,312
From: Virginia
Yet another month has come and gone and the eight Livewire bikes that I have been keeping track of are just not getting any love. So would somebody, anybody, please buy one? One would think that the dealership (Thunder Mountain H-D), after sitting on these same bikes for quite a few months now, would be motivated to "deal". At least a little bit. Does that make sense or am I having an unrealistic expectation? Anyhoo, see ya'll next month. Maybe magic will happen and a few of 'em will disappear. :-)
Yeah they still have 8 listed on their web site. I don't think Harley dealerships are allowed to list prices on the web lower than MSRP.
I read someplace else that Harley's dealer price on the Livewire was $25K. Go offer them $25K for one and see if they will sell it.
Grand HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 4,607
Likes: 3,312
From: Virginia
One thing that sucks with the Level 3 charging is HD themselves tell you not to use it very much. I do not recall the exact amount but I think it is only recommended once every 10 charges as it shortens battery life on the LiveWire. How much who knows but when you warn people not to use it then have no Level 2 capability you've forced people to using Level 1. In my book not having Level 2 is a Big misstep on HD's part.
From what I have read on line it is a 4 to 1 ratio recommended by HD for maximum battery life. So 4 Level I charges for each DC fast charge. And I'm assuming that recommendation is 1 fast charge then do at least four slow charges before you next fast charge, Not 5 fast charges then 20 slow charges type of use.
Road Master
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 810
Likes: 570
From: Detroit Metro Area
One thing that sucks with the Level 3 charging is HD themselves tell you not to use it very much. I do not recall the exact amount but I think it is only recommended once every 10 charges as it shortens battery life on the LiveWire. How much who knows but when you warn people not to use it then have no Level 2 capability you've forced people to using Level 1. In my book not having Level 2 is a Big misstep on HD's part.
Do you know the capacity of the LW battery? Will it charge on Level 1 (120v plug) overnight so that I can ride it to work and back (56 miles round trip) and then charge it overnight for the next day? If it could fit that charge timing Level 1 would probably be fine for me for the daily commute but I would not be able to use it on weekends or trips for sure.
I remember when Ford released the electric Focus and the govmint was giving a $10k tax incentive. I was tempted right up to the point when I found out it had a 62 mile range on a 70 degree day without using the heater or AC, during the day without the lights on, not using the rear window defroster, or any other power sucking accessory. Yup, that would not work for me at all!
The LW range would work for me though....as long as I can get it to charge over night.
Grand HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 4,266
Likes: 3,159
From: Texas
Harley says the LiveWire will charge from zero to full in 12.5 hours at home. They claim 146 miles of range, so a 56 mile trip should only use around 1/3 of the battery, and therefore should charge in much less than 12 hours, probably more like 4 or 5.
Tourer
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 465
Likes: 296
From: Grand Rapids, MI
Steve,
Do you know the capacity of the LW battery? Will it charge on Level 1 (120v plug) overnight so that I can ride it to work and back (56 miles round trip) and then charge it overnight for the next day? If it could fit that charge timing Level 1 would probably be fine for me for the daily commute but I would not be able to use it on weekends or trips for sure.
I remember when Ford released the electric Focus and the govmint was giving a $10k tax incentive. I was tempted right up to the point when I found out it had a 62 mile range on a 70 degree day without using the heater or AC, during the day without the lights on, not using the rear window defroster, or any other power sucking accessory. Yup, that would not work for me at all!
The LW range would work for me though....as long as I can get it to charge over night.
Do you know the capacity of the LW battery? Will it charge on Level 1 (120v plug) overnight so that I can ride it to work and back (56 miles round trip) and then charge it overnight for the next day? If it could fit that charge timing Level 1 would probably be fine for me for the daily commute but I would not be able to use it on weekends or trips for sure.
I remember when Ford released the electric Focus and the govmint was giving a $10k tax incentive. I was tempted right up to the point when I found out it had a 62 mile range on a 70 degree day without using the heater or AC, during the day without the lights on, not using the rear window defroster, or any other power sucking accessory. Yup, that would not work for me at all!
The LW range would work for me though....as long as I can get it to charge over night.
If i were to put it on the charger tonight, it will be ready by about 5am - but I don't need to. With 71 miles range, I will go to work and back tomorrow and then o/n charge in my garage - level 1.
Here is a suggestion - go to the LW forum and ask owners if they struggle with the lack of L2 charging. Most of use have touring bikes for the long hauls, and this is a great 100-130 mi/day bike. Don't see the need for L2 for the style of riding. Remember this is a sport bike, not a cruiser
HD EFI Guru
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,502
Likes: 4,803
Steve,
Do you know the capacity of the LW battery? Will it charge on Level 1 (120v plug) overnight so that I can ride it to work and back (56 miles round trip) and then charge it overnight for the next day? If it could fit that charge timing Level 1 would probably be fine for me for the daily commute but I would not be able to use it on weekends or trips for sure.
I remember when Ford released the electric Focus and the govmint was giving a $10k tax incentive. I was tempted right up to the point when I found out it had a 62 mile range on a 70 degree day without using the heater or AC, during the day without the lights on, not using the rear window defroster, or any other power sucking accessory. Yup, that would not work for me at all!
The LW range would work for me though....as long as I can get it to charge over night.
Do you know the capacity of the LW battery? Will it charge on Level 1 (120v plug) overnight so that I can ride it to work and back (56 miles round trip) and then charge it overnight for the next day? If it could fit that charge timing Level 1 would probably be fine for me for the daily commute but I would not be able to use it on weekends or trips for sure.
I remember when Ford released the electric Focus and the govmint was giving a $10k tax incentive. I was tempted right up to the point when I found out it had a 62 mile range on a 70 degree day without using the heater or AC, during the day without the lights on, not using the rear window defroster, or any other power sucking accessory. Yup, that would not work for me at all!
The LW range would work for me though....as long as I can get it to charge over night.
I personally will not be getting one anytime soon as the gas powered bikes are just as nice and cheaper to operate over all. It will not be long before the power companies start charging more for power to the consumer like they already do to businesses.
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Banned
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 3,036
Likes: 1,013
From: Nunya.
I have the LW and I am happy to answer questions with firsthand experience rather than speculation from people who have read about the bike. I just rode 45 miles round trip to work and I have 71 miles of range left. I started with 95% battery this morning. My ride to work was 15% highway, and on the way home 40% highway (and when I am on the highway, I am rarely below 80mph).
If i were to put it on the charger tonight, it will be ready by about 5am - but I don't need to. With 71 miles range, I will go to work and back tomorrow and then o/n charge in my garage - level 1.
Here is a suggestion - go to the LW forum and ask owners if they struggle with the lack of L2 charging. Most of use have touring bikes for the long hauls, and this is a great 100-130 mi/day bike. Don't see the need for L2 for the style of riding. Remember this is a sport bike, not a cruiser
If i were to put it on the charger tonight, it will be ready by about 5am - but I don't need to. With 71 miles range, I will go to work and back tomorrow and then o/n charge in my garage - level 1.
Here is a suggestion - go to the LW forum and ask owners if they struggle with the lack of L2 charging. Most of use have touring bikes for the long hauls, and this is a great 100-130 mi/day bike. Don't see the need for L2 for the style of riding. Remember this is a sport bike, not a cruiser
Some of my friends with them are saying the ECU learned to be more efficient over time and with them developing custom profiles for more range/efficiency they're getting decent mileage , have you dabbled with the black box yet ?.
Is any of your ride "regen" productive/intensive like downhill on a range/twisty to bring the charge back up ? How much has regen effected your braking effort ?
I will not own a livewire as my first E-bike as my funding SHE has been cut a bit , so the mid-spec Savic https://savicmotorcycles.com/ will be my first E-bike later this year or when production gets one to me. I can't wait though it comes with Pirelli Diablo Rosso II , they should be fairly sticky.
There's a faint chance of a Livewire if one comes up on Craigslist 2nd hand or buying a wreck(hopefully not) and importing it but a brand new Savic is still a brand new bike I guess , it'd be my first non-HD since hell knows.
Spartan3 is the Livewire the best bike you've owned or just another bike you own ?
Grand HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 4,607
Likes: 3,312
From: Virginia
Steve,
Do you know the capacity of the LW battery? Will it charge on Level 1 (120v plug) overnight so that I can ride it to work and back (56 miles round trip) and then charge it overnight for the next day? If it could fit that charge timing Level 1 would probably be fine for me for the daily commute but I would not be able to use it on weekends or trips for sure.
I remember when Ford released the electric Focus and the govmint was giving a $10k tax incentive. I was tempted right up to the point when I found out it had a 62 mile range on a 70 degree day without using the heater or AC, during the day without the lights on, not using the rear window defroster, or any other power sucking accessory. Yup, that would not work for me at all!
The LW range would work for me though....as long as I can get it to charge over night.
Do you know the capacity of the LW battery? Will it charge on Level 1 (120v plug) overnight so that I can ride it to work and back (56 miles round trip) and then charge it overnight for the next day? If it could fit that charge timing Level 1 would probably be fine for me for the daily commute but I would not be able to use it on weekends or trips for sure.
I remember when Ford released the electric Focus and the govmint was giving a $10k tax incentive. I was tempted right up to the point when I found out it had a 62 mile range on a 70 degree day without using the heater or AC, during the day without the lights on, not using the rear window defroster, or any other power sucking accessory. Yup, that would not work for me at all!
The LW range would work for me though....as long as I can get it to charge over night.
15.5kWh is the stated capacity of the LW Battery and it is supposed to take 10-11 hrs to recharge completely on Level 1 Charger. Your 56 mile round trip commute shouldn't drain the battery completely even at highway speeds. You are probably looking at a 8-9 hr recharge every night.
Just plan your weekend rides to include stops at Harley dealerships with a quick charger or a Level III Fast DC charger and you will be fine. You should be able to ride for an hour and a half, stop at a charger for 40 mintues, ride for another hour, stop at a charger for 40 minutes and just keep going like that all day.