LiveWire Observations
Tourer
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 465
Likes: 296
From: Grand Rapids, MI
Spartan3 so roughly 55% of your 45 mile trip at 80 mph and you still have 71 miles range left that's decent from an electric.
Some of my friends with them are saying the ECU learned to be more efficient over time and with them developing custom profiles for more range/efficiency they're getting decent mileage , have you dabbled with the black box yet ?.
Is any of your ride "regen" productive/intensive like downhill on a range/twisty to bring the charge back up ? How much has regen effected your braking effort ?
I will not own a livewire as my first E-bike as my funding SHE has been cut a bit , so the mid-spec Savic https://savicmotorcycles.com/ will be my first E-bike later this year or when production gets one to me. I can't wait though it comes with Pirelli Diablo Rosso II , they should be fairly sticky.
There's a faint chance of a Livewire if one comes up on Craigslist 2nd hand or buying a wreck(hopefully not) and importing it but a brand new Savic is still a brand new bike I guess , it'd be my first non-HD since hell knows.
Spartan3 is the Livewire the best bike you've owned or just another bike you own ?
Some of my friends with them are saying the ECU learned to be more efficient over time and with them developing custom profiles for more range/efficiency they're getting decent mileage , have you dabbled with the black box yet ?.
Is any of your ride "regen" productive/intensive like downhill on a range/twisty to bring the charge back up ? How much has regen effected your braking effort ?
I will not own a livewire as my first E-bike as my funding SHE has been cut a bit , so the mid-spec Savic https://savicmotorcycles.com/ will be my first E-bike later this year or when production gets one to me. I can't wait though it comes with Pirelli Diablo Rosso II , they should be fairly sticky.
There's a faint chance of a Livewire if one comes up on Craigslist 2nd hand or buying a wreck(hopefully not) and importing it but a brand new Savic is still a brand new bike I guess , it'd be my first non-HD since hell knows.
Spartan3 is the Livewire the best bike you've owned or just another bike you own ?
Setting a custom mode is very easy, and I use this. I have a mode for surface street riding that is high on regen and more restricted on throttle and power - however, even with those settings there is not a bike that has been able to touch me at the acceleration game. I will switch modes based on the area I am riding, so when I switch over to highway I use the programmed "road" mode. My custom map has definitely made a difference with the around town regen - also don't need to use brakes nearly as much. I still have a lot of playing around with the modes. Based on my current experience, I think it will be possible to get above HD's stated range as I learn more.
Regen is something that I have come to really like and when I get on my other bikes I miss that almost as much as the wild acceleration. Based on my custom mapping, it definitely works to prolong range.
Regarding the last question...I don't want to jinx myself with the HD gremlins, but this is the most fun I have ever had on a motorcycle...by a long shot. Best bike...I can't really answer that b/c I have different styles and sizes of bikes for different uses. I can say that for any non-highway riding, this is hands down the best for the stop-and-go stuff. I actually enjoy riding in town because the zip off the line and the rapid deceleration afforded by setting regen higher. For me, I like to have bikes that I like to look at as well as ride. It is impossible to get off this bike and not keep looking over my shoulder at the sleek and aggressive lines.
HD EFI Guru
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,502
Likes: 4,803
15.5kWh is the stated capacity of the LW Battery and it is supposed to take 10-11 hrs to recharge completely on Level 1 Charger. Your 56 mile round trip commute shouldn't drain the battery completely even at highway speeds. You are probably looking at a 8-9 hr recharge every night.
Just plan your weekend rides to include stops at Harley dealerships with a quick charger or a Level III Fast DC charger and you will be fine. You should be able to ride for an hour and a half, stop at a charger for 40 mintues, ride for another hour, stop at a charger for 40 minutes and just keep going like that all day.
Just plan your weekend rides to include stops at Harley dealerships with a quick charger or a Level III Fast DC charger and you will be fine. You should be able to ride for an hour and a half, stop at a charger for 40 mintues, ride for another hour, stop at a charger for 40 minutes and just keep going like that all day.
There is no doubt that electric vehicles have boat loads of low rpm torque on tap as that is the way an electric motor works. They make max torque at 0 RPM and as the RPM climbs the toque drops. This is just what makes them so much fun to ride.
Grand HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 4,607
Likes: 3,312
From: Virginia
There is a problem with your charge program in that it does just what HD tells you NOT to do! The HD dealerships are using Level lll and since you are told not to use it time after time, that's out. So if you start out with a full battery on Level l charging and go 100 miles and then use Level lll fast charge for 40 minutes that's it, as for what HD says for you to do. You need to switch to Level l charging for the next several charges so that would be a 10 - 12 hour recharge each time. Now what's going to happen if you recharge on Level lll several times in a row, who knows for sure, but I do know that the system is capable of storing the charge time and what Level was used for the charging. So how long it stores that information I have no idea but I'm sure there is a reason it's in there.
There is no doubt that electric vehicles have boat loads of low rpm torque on tap as that is the way an electric motor works. They make max torque at 0 RPM and as the RPM climbs the toque drops. This is just what makes them so much fun to ride.
There is no doubt that electric vehicles have boat loads of low rpm torque on tap as that is the way an electric motor works. They make max torque at 0 RPM and as the RPM climbs the toque drops. This is just what makes them so much fun to ride.
Well at least one person has done an Iron Butt, 1,000 miles in 24 hrs, on a Livewire. So there is nothing in the software stopping you from going against Harley's recommendations.
I agree the Livewire or it's software will be tracking your charging habits, and I don't know what that does to your warranty. I mean if you don't change the oil in your ICE bike and the engine freezes up the warranty doesn't cover that. Will Harley be looking at your charging habits to deny warranty claims on batteries?
I wonder what happens to a Harley employee that buys a Livewire that rides to work every day?
Last edited by VAFish; Jun 3, 2020 at 11:45 AM.
Grand HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 4,266
Likes: 3,159
From: Texas
Harley recommends 91 octane too; you can run 87 just fine, but the bike runs better on 91. I don't think there's any warranty implications for using 87 octane, is there? So maybe it's a similar situation, they're making a recommendation and if you lose performance by going against their recommendation, that's on you?
I agree the Livewire or it's software will be tracking your charging habits, and I don't know what that does to your warranty. I mean if you don't change the oil in your ICE bike and the engine freezes up the warranty doesn't cover that. Will Harley be looking at your charging habits to deny warranty claims on batteries?
I wonder what happens to a Harley employee that buys a Livewire that rides to work every day?
Grand HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 4,607
Likes: 3,312
From: Virginia
As always, there's a difference between whether something CAN be done, and whether it SHOULD be done. Harley says you shouldn't fast-charge more than, what, one out of every 4 times? What I find interesting about that is that they (presumably) designed the whole free fast charge infrastructure in order to get (relatively) rich folks into high-end Harley dealerships more often... so if Harley is advising against continuous fast charging, theoretically that would be working against their own interests, so -- I'd be inclined to follow their advice and avoid Level 3 charging on a regular basis.
Harley recommends 91 octane too; you can run 87 just fine, but the bike runs better on 91. I don't think there's any warranty implications for using 87 octane, is there? So maybe it's a similar situation, they're making a recommendation and if you lose performance by going against their recommendation, that's on you?
Well, probably a bit early for anyone to know. Harley's ICE warranty says you have to maintain the bike according to the maintenance schedule. Charging isn't maintenance, so -- yeah, that's an interesting question. Maybe Spartan can check the owner's manual and see what it says.
I would assume they would be doing the same thing that every other Livewire buyer would be doing -- charging at home at night. Unless their commute to work is over 73 miles each way, which seems unlikely.
Harley recommends 91 octane too; you can run 87 just fine, but the bike runs better on 91. I don't think there's any warranty implications for using 87 octane, is there? So maybe it's a similar situation, they're making a recommendation and if you lose performance by going against their recommendation, that's on you?
Well, probably a bit early for anyone to know. Harley's ICE warranty says you have to maintain the bike according to the maintenance schedule. Charging isn't maintenance, so -- yeah, that's an interesting question. Maybe Spartan can check the owner's manual and see what it says.
I would assume they would be doing the same thing that every other Livewire buyer would be doing -- charging at home at night. Unless their commute to work is over 73 miles each way, which seems unlikely.
I don't know, Harley denied warranty claims for a guy with a Tri Glide because he had large flag mounts attached to a trailer hitch and they said that caused extra drag on the engine and transmission.
Without reading the fine text of the Livewire warranty we don't really know.
If I worked at a dealership and rode a Livewire I'd want the free electricity every day.
Grand HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 4,266
Likes: 3,159
From: Texas
If I worked at a dealership and rode a Livewire I'd want the free electricity every day.
If I had a $30,000 LiveWire, no way would I want to risk damaging the charging system by plugging into a L3 charger every day. Harley says you should only make 1 out of every 4 charges L3. I tend to think they have reasons why they said that, so -- why not listen to 'em?
Last edited by FatBob2018; Jun 3, 2020 at 07:37 PM.
HD EFI Guru
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,502
Likes: 4,803
Here is the long and short of it. When you charge with Level III the battery gets hotter quicker due to the increased current being forced into it. That heat degrades the battery, so what the good chargers do is reduce the current into the battery as a function of heat. If they get to hot they will out gas fumes, which allow the fluid in the battery to dry out. Once that happens the battery has a very short life. This is also why they can get up to 80% of charge quickly, then have to really slow it down to get the last 20% in. How good or bad HD has done on there charging circuit to control it, who knows. This has been one of the larger problems the electric vehicles have always had an issue with. Tesla spent billion of dollars in this very area and has many patents on it but they decided to make public much of what they discovered and that is just why we are where were at today with electric vehicles and batteries. Tesla and it's partners are way ahead of the rest of the industry and while it was very nice they shared, they also kept the good stuff for themselves and they continue to improve it. Give it another 10 years and I think they will have improved things enough to make electric vehicles more mainstream.
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HD EFI Guru
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,502
Likes: 4,803
Yes, I've been there when the bike is charging both on Level III and Level I, that is the main time the cooling system is needed to help control the heat generated from charging! If it was not working the charge times would increase by close to double.