Milwakee 8 stalling
Stage IV
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
From: Hayward, CA 94542
My first experience with the idle drop was going to a friend's house on a hot (95deg) day. Did a right turn decel and it just dropped silent. Hit the start while still moving and immediately started up. Park it at friend's and had no problems going home.
2nd was cooler weather (65 deg) cool bike. 3 miles into ride at a stop sign. While starter spun first two tries I waved traffic around me and luckily it caught on the third - ride home (20mi) was uneventful.
3rd was 65deg night weather downshifting into a steep downhill. re-engaged clutch to bumpstart. Experienced loud decel near-backfire performance for the next two mi til I got home.
No fault codes this Friday by indy. I spent two 50 mi rides this weekend with lots of stop & go trying to reproduce. No go.
So this seems like a clutch switch match having experienced this 3 times in two months (2000mi)
2nd was cooler weather (65 deg) cool bike. 3 miles into ride at a stop sign. While starter spun first two tries I waved traffic around me and luckily it caught on the third - ride home (20mi) was uneventful.
3rd was 65deg night weather downshifting into a steep downhill. re-engaged clutch to bumpstart. Experienced loud decel near-backfire performance for the next two mi til I got home.
No fault codes this Friday by indy. I spent two 50 mi rides this weekend with lots of stop & go trying to reproduce. No go.
So this seems like a clutch switch match having experienced this 3 times in two months (2000mi)
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,846
Likes: 173
From: Simi Valley, CA
I just got a 2017 Limited two weeks ago. I have about 900 miles on it so far and have had this stalling issue on a handful of occasions. Each time I've been able to restart the bike without issue.
I'm not certain (yet) of the cause of the stalling. My current thoughts are that the idle speed is simply too low and that can result in an occasional stall. Unless the dealer can do a flash to increase the idle RPM I won't be having them address this issue. I'm certainly not going to have the dealer start replacing parts haphazardly. To me this is clearly a fuel management issue and I'm including idle speed under that "fuel management" umbrella.
For those of you that have had the clutch switch pack replaced and claim that has corrected the stalling issue, I'd sure like to know how? I can understand the switch being defective in those cases where the bike would not restart in gear after a stall, but I just can't wrap my brain around the switch being the culprit that causes the stall.
Can anyone explain how a neutral safety switch can be the cause of an engine stall?
I'm not certain (yet) of the cause of the stalling. My current thoughts are that the idle speed is simply too low and that can result in an occasional stall. Unless the dealer can do a flash to increase the idle RPM I won't be having them address this issue. I'm certainly not going to have the dealer start replacing parts haphazardly. To me this is clearly a fuel management issue and I'm including idle speed under that "fuel management" umbrella.
For those of you that have had the clutch switch pack replaced and claim that has corrected the stalling issue, I'd sure like to know how? I can understand the switch being defective in those cases where the bike would not restart in gear after a stall, but I just can't wrap my brain around the switch being the culprit that causes the stall.
Can anyone explain how a neutral safety switch can be the cause of an engine stall?
Last edited by 2black1s; Oct 30, 2017 at 01:42 AM.
Grand HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 3,807
Likes: 1,488
From: SW Washington State
Our bikes are throttle by wire, controlled by the ECM that relies on other sensors to make the best of it. The clutch sw not only functions as a safety switch, its also talks to the ECM. When the ECM sees what your doing with the clutch, it can make adjustments that allow for smooth on/off Throttle transitions.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 32,934
Likes: 36,032
From: Carlsbad, CA
I haven't read this entire thread. So, forgive me if this was already covered.
I just did the HD canned Stage 1 download, and noticed changes in idle behaviour as follows.
- Idle speed is now about 950 RPMS. Prior it was 850.
- When coming up to a stop, it seems that as the bike speed drops to 10 MPH, the motor revs to 1250, and stays that way until the bike stops.
Maybe this was done to solve the stalling problem...which by the way I didn't have.
I just did the HD canned Stage 1 download, and noticed changes in idle behaviour as follows.
- Idle speed is now about 950 RPMS. Prior it was 850.
- When coming up to a stop, it seems that as the bike speed drops to 10 MPH, the motor revs to 1250, and stays that way until the bike stops.
Maybe this was done to solve the stalling problem...which by the way I didn't have.
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,846
Likes: 173
From: Simi Valley, CA
Our bikes are throttle by wire, controlled by the ECM that relies on other sensors to make the best of it. The clutch sw not only functions as a safety switch, its also talks to the ECM. When the ECM sees what your doing with the clutch, it can make adjustments that allow for smooth on/off Throttle transitions.
I agree with all youve stated except the last sentence When the ECM sees what your doing with the clutch, it can make adjustments that allow for smooth on/off Throttle transitions.
Let me preface the following by stating that I am not an electronics wizard by any means, but Im not completely without knowledge either Thus, to the best of my knowledge
The ECM does not make any spark or fuel management adjustments relative to the clutch lever or the resulting clutch switch positioning. Therefore, the ECM is doing nothing to influence smooth on/off throttle transitions based on clutch switch input.
What the clutch switch does control, through the ECM, is to activate or deactivate the starter circuit, based on clutch switch input, when the transmission is in any gear. This occurs when the clutch lever actuates the clutch switch to close (or complete) the circuit. That is the only function of the clutch switch as it relates to ECM operation.
Thanks for your input.
But my original question still stands Can anyone explain how the clutch switch can be the cause of an engine stall?
Note: I changed the nomenclature from neutral safety switch to clutch switch for the sake of clarity. That is the nomenclature used in the HD manual describing the switch in question. Neutral Safety Switch was a generic term I used in my original question.
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,846
Likes: 173
From: Simi Valley, CA
I haven't read this entire thread. So, forgive me if this was already covered.
I just did the HD canned Stage 1 download, and noticed changes in idle behaviour as follows.
- Idle speed is now about 950 RPMS. Prior it was 850.
- When coming up to a stop, it seems that as the bike speed drops to 10 MPH, the motor revs to 1250, and stays that way until the bike stops.
Maybe this was done to solve the stalling problem...which by the way I didn't have.
I just did the HD canned Stage 1 download, and noticed changes in idle behaviour as follows.
- Idle speed is now about 950 RPMS. Prior it was 850.
- When coming up to a stop, it seems that as the bike speed drops to 10 MPH, the motor revs to 1250, and stays that way until the bike stops.
Maybe this was done to solve the stalling problem...which by the way I didn't have.
I just can't see how a clutch switch has anything to do with it although others have indicated otherwise.
Grand HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 3,807
Likes: 1,488
From: SW Washington State
I agree with all you’ve stated except the last sentence… “When the ECM sees what your doing with the clutch, it can make adjustments that allow for smooth on/off Throttle transitions.”
Let me preface the following by stating that I am not an electronics wizard by any means, but I’m not completely without knowledge either… Thus, to the best of my knowledge…
The ECM does not make any spark or fuel management adjustments relative to the clutch lever or the resulting clutch switch positioning. Therefore, the ECM is doing nothing to influence “smooth on/off throttle transitions” based on clutch switch input.
What the clutch switch does control, through the ECM, is to activate or deactivate the starter circuit, based on clutch switch input, when the transmission is in any gear. This occurs when the clutch lever actuates the clutch switch to close (or complete) the circuit. That is the only function of the clutch switch as it relates to ECM operation.
Thanks for your input.
But my original question still stands… Can anyone explain how the clutch switch can be the cause of an engine stall?
Note: I changed the nomenclature from “neutral safety switch” to “clutch switch” for the sake of clarity. That is the nomenclature used in the HD manual describing the switch in question. “Neutral Safety Switch” was a generic term I used in my original question.
Let me preface the following by stating that I am not an electronics wizard by any means, but I’m not completely without knowledge either… Thus, to the best of my knowledge…
The ECM does not make any spark or fuel management adjustments relative to the clutch lever or the resulting clutch switch positioning. Therefore, the ECM is doing nothing to influence “smooth on/off throttle transitions” based on clutch switch input.
What the clutch switch does control, through the ECM, is to activate or deactivate the starter circuit, based on clutch switch input, when the transmission is in any gear. This occurs when the clutch lever actuates the clutch switch to close (or complete) the circuit. That is the only function of the clutch switch as it relates to ECM operation.
Thanks for your input.
But my original question still stands… Can anyone explain how the clutch switch can be the cause of an engine stall?
Note: I changed the nomenclature from “neutral safety switch” to “clutch switch” for the sake of clarity. That is the nomenclature used in the HD manual describing the switch in question. “Neutral Safety Switch” was a generic term I used in my original question.
Last edited by sixguns; Oct 31, 2017 at 06:23 PM.
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Joe Kucinski
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,846
Likes: 173
From: Simi Valley, CA
Reason being, is that I can go for a few days without a stall, then the next time I ride it may stall. There is no rhyme or reason. I can't point to any specific condition that makes the stall more, or less, likely. It just happens sometimes and not others.
Did the dealer do anything other than replace the switch?
Is your idle speed the same as it was before the work?
Have you ridden the bike enough since the switch replacement to be certain the condition has been resolved?