I have been away from the forums for a couple years when I thought my riding days had come to an end, but have recently returned. I have bought a 17 SGS and am thinking of leaving her stock, as it runs and sounds great as is, but we all know how that goes.

I am reading about a "consent decree" that Harley signed with the EPA for reasons unknown to me, but I can imagine they were bullied by a prior administration to sign "or else".......

I have a couple of questions regarding this:

1) The Magnusson Moss LAW requires that the warranty be honored even with modifications UNLESS it can be shown that the modifications CAUSED the failure. A consent decree is an agreement with an administrative agency of the executive branch of the government, and as such, it CANNOT violate US law. It is my sense that should this decree be challenged in court, it would get stricken down, unless the court that heard the case were to be one of the ones "stacked" with an activist judge over the past 40 or so years. They are counting on no one wanting to be, or having the money to be "the test case".

2) Even with that aside, how can a muffler or and AC be grounds for voiding a warranty? The controlling component for the emissions is the ECM, so I can see how they might void for a non EPA compliant tuner, IF they decree was held up in court.

Educate me please, and any links to reference materials or anecdotes of personal experience are appreciated......

Lon

 

sorry man..it's all out here ad nauseam, rivaling the great which oil is best debates..it's been exhausting..pun intended

 

Here is the thing.. If you want to install an unapproved AC and muffler (head pipe is a pretty obvious infraction) and test the bike so that it is approved by the EPA, HD will have trouble voiding the warranty.. Find a good testing facility and start filling out the EPA forms. When done if the EPA approves the emissions test you can take HD to court if they void the warranty.. Not sure you will win even then after all if you look at the warranty in the manual, it is stated as "limited"

 

The warranty thread has become the oil thread of the M8.

More information and disinformation than you ever wanted to know.

 

It's simple. Don't believe a damn thing a dealer tells you or a vendor. Not one word.

Only use Harleys craptastic tuner. Do not change the head pipe or remove the cat nor turbo or super charge a M8. And all will be fine.

If you live in the prison state of fruit and nuts. Then be wary of all the loony cali crap.

 

There are multiple things going on. If you modify the power output in any non approved way (tune, etc) Harley can void your powertrain warranty. Every manufacturer is that way. I work in automotive and our factory tools send info back and if it reads tuned, your powertrain warr is void, no discussion. The epa requires Harley to void your powertrain warr if you modify emissions in a non approved way. Mike

 

With all the talk about changed warranties, the decree, and the MM Act, along with several different "interpretations" of what it means, I decided to do my own research. I'm retired, I had the time....

I have read the Magnuson-Moss warranty act (very boring) and a couple of "summaries" by different law offices. I read the EPA consent decree, and read the 2017 Harley Davidson Limited Warranty.

I summarized my findings in post #12 of this thread. Post #12 makes reference to the sections of the HD Warranty that apply to perfomance parts.

https://www.hdforums.com/forum/milwa...y-video-2.html


If you would like to read the Consent decree: (note: this is the filed copy, for the 30 day public feedback requirement, before being signed by a judge and finalized)

https://www.epa.gov/sites/production...avidson-cd.pdf


To read the MM Act:
http://uscode.house.gov/statutes/pl/93/637.pdf

Go to page 4, 102 (c) that has "Conditions." in the left margin. That's the part everyone seems to misunderstand.

I read several interpretations of how the MM Act can/should be applied. Here is a link to the simplest, yet thorough, explanation of how the MM Act can be applied:

http://www.dummies.com/home-garden/c...rranty-intact/

Note the paragraph- Further, under the act, aftermarket equipment that improves performance does not automatically void a vehicle manufacturer’s original warranty, unless the warranty clearly states the addition of aftermarket equipment automatically voids your vehicle’s warranty, or if it can be proven that the aftermarket device is the direct cause of the failure.


Note the conditions when performance equipment can void a warranty;

The warranty clearly states the addition of aftermarket equipment automatically voids your vehicle’s warranty.... OR....If it can be proven that the aftermarket device is the direct cause of the failure.

Since there is an "OR" between these components, only 1 of the 2 need apply. Going back to the HD warranty exclusions I listed in the other thread, HD clearly states performance enhancing parts may void the warranty.

Take the time to read some and/or do your own research. The information is available. It's all actually pretty clear, certainly legal, and technically the way things have been (except the consent decree) for many years. The HD Warranty is just being adhered to more strictly due to the pressure of the EPA consent decree and some profit opportunities for the MoCo.

You asked for an education.... I Hope this helps your understanding, or at least helps you on the road to your own research...

 

PRECISELY WHAT I WAS LOOKING FOR.

Thank you

Lon

 

You're welcome....

 

Although my dealer said they would honor my warranty after I had them install a cat-less head-pipe, and a tuned with a PV tuner, I know I am taking a risk. It's a crapshoot that I will have any drivetrain parts covered by warranty if something fails. But... I was prepared to assume the risk, and take the hit if warranty work is rejected.

So, my advice would be, regardless of any promises made by the dealership, to just assume any expenses related to drivetrain work will likely come out of your pocket.