Replacement for the M8
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It appears to be the single largest market that is sustaining the other manufacturers. The "adventure" motorcycle is basically equivalent to the SUV in the car/truck market. They've proven so popular in the car market that Ford is actually discontinuing all cars (except the Mustang) and only building SUVs and trucks. Dodge is said to be discontinuing all cars (except the Challenger/Charger). The SUV and the truck have won. In motorcycles, every major manufacturer other than Harley offers adventure bikes, and in the case of BMW their adventure bikes are the biggest-selling line. And, BMW's sales are growing year-over-year, unlike Harley's. So it makes sense (to me at least) why they would at least look at the segment.
I was on a trip in coastal Oregon and Washington last month. Generally I see at least 20, probably 40 Harleys on the road for every BMW I see in Texas. But up there, it was maybe 2:1, at times 1:1. Every other bike was a big ol' BMW GS. Never seen so many BMW's in my life. Perhaps they were all rentals, as EagleRider has a good stock of 'em up there, but there were an absurdly disproportionate number of adventure bikes vs. Harley cruisers as compared to what I've observed in the south.
Well, that's the theory at least. The reality is that SUVs are a massive market and probably something like 99.999999% of SUV buyers will never take them off-road, even on a dirt road. Probably the same thing applies to adventure bikes; you'll have a few who will ride cross-country on them and probably 95% will be used as daily commuters and to "look tough". I agree with you that bulletproof reliability should be an overriding design goal. I'm just not so sure that it's really going to matter all that much when it comes to sales to average folks.
I was on a trip in coastal Oregon and Washington last month. Generally I see at least 20, probably 40 Harleys on the road for every BMW I see in Texas. But up there, it was maybe 2:1, at times 1:1. Every other bike was a big ol' BMW GS. Never seen so many BMW's in my life. Perhaps they were all rentals, as EagleRider has a good stock of 'em up there, but there were an absurdly disproportionate number of adventure bikes vs. Harley cruisers as compared to what I've observed in the south.
Well, that's the theory at least. The reality is that SUVs are a massive market and probably something like 99.999999% of SUV buyers will never take them off-road, even on a dirt road. Probably the same thing applies to adventure bikes; you'll have a few who will ride cross-country on them and probably 95% will be used as daily commuters and to "look tough". I agree with you that bulletproof reliability should be an overriding design goal. I'm just not so sure that it's really going to matter all that much when it comes to sales to average folks.
As far as BMW motorcycle sales are concerned they simply aren’t a factor in the US. BMW has about a 4% (all motorcycle types) US marketshare. HD has slightly less than a 50% marketshare and sell as many motorcycles in 3 weeks as BMW sells in a yr in the US.
http://www.cyclenews.com/2018/01/art...-sales-report/
HD can barely get US millenials interested in strictly road bikes, so Adventure motorcycling is a ridiculously tall order. Better chances overseas.
Last edited by Heatwave; Jul 30, 2018 at 09:49 PM.
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From: poway
I don't know if they could get there by doubling the cylinder size... that engine already looks like it's filling the engine bay at 1250cc. But would they need to double it? Even only increasing it 50%, it would still be bigger than 114 cubic inches.
If they do want to double the size, I'd be interested in a V4 version. Heck, they could even cast the cylinders so that it still looks like a V-twin, but two of those 975cc engines would make a pretty huge 1950cc V-4 that would probably forever silence the critiques coming from the metric side... with 90HP per liter it'd be a near-180HP barnstormer. Harley experimented with that concept once before, with Project Nova, making a modular engine that could be a V-twin, or a V-4, or even a V-6. Check out the pics, they even made mega-fat cylinders so it looks like a V-twin, it's just the 4 exhaust pipes that give it away. But straying from the V-Twin formula might be hazardous to retaining their faithful clientele, so ... I guess we'll see in the coming years what their plans are.
If they do want to double the size, I'd be interested in a V4 version. Heck, they could even cast the cylinders so that it still looks like a V-twin, but two of those 975cc engines would make a pretty huge 1950cc V-4 that would probably forever silence the critiques coming from the metric side... with 90HP per liter it'd be a near-180HP barnstormer. Harley experimented with that concept once before, with Project Nova, making a modular engine that could be a V-twin, or a V-4, or even a V-6. Check out the pics, they even made mega-fat cylinders so it looks like a V-twin, it's just the 4 exhaust pipes that give it away. But straying from the V-Twin formula might be hazardous to retaining their faithful clientele, so ... I guess we'll see in the coming years what their plans are.
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From: Virginia Beach
Well if this turns out to be a good option to the BMW GS then they might be on to something. Hopefully the motor and transmission is more along the lines of the V-Rod, at least in dependability. I don't know if at my age I would be interested in something like this, but living in the west maybe so. There are a lot of places that are only accessible by gravel or logging roads that are pretty hard to handle on an FL at my age. Ten years ago I didn't hesitate to take the back way from Albuquerque to Sandia Peak on my Road Glide with the wife on the back. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't even consider tackling it on my Road Glide today. On an adventure bike I would probably still be game.
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From: poway
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From: Alabama
Road Warrior
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From: Alabama
One thing that Harley needs to do is to reduce weight and add power. Use of composites and alloys are the way to go. In my opinion, HD should spin off a division for the manufacture and marketing of the new, smaller bikes.
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I think bore and stroke need to increase more than that in order to double displacement. More like 40% increase in both rather than 26% increase.
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From: poway