Air cleaner mod. Question?
#1
#2
Hi John,
The K&N oiled cotton based filter material will stop particles from reaching your intake just as well if not better than the OEM paper. The main advantage, for me, is that the K&N is a reusable lifetime filter. If you are looking to achieve more airflow, you might want to consider replacing the air cleaner altogether. The Screaming Eagle Ventilator is a nice choice and is very low profile. My knee no longer hits the air cleaner. If you want to stick with the paper element, that is what it comes with. And you should be ok if you change it every 10k. The K&N element is $60.00 more. You will also want to remap with a tuner. Also, if you are increasing the intake airflow, you should think about opening up the restricted exhaust as well. There are many after market products out there. Remember the M8 heads are extremely exhaust sensitive and don't perform well with a muffler over 4". The M8 needs a little back pressure to achieve it's low end torque potential.
The K&N oiled cotton based filter material will stop particles from reaching your intake just as well if not better than the OEM paper. The main advantage, for me, is that the K&N is a reusable lifetime filter. If you are looking to achieve more airflow, you might want to consider replacing the air cleaner altogether. The Screaming Eagle Ventilator is a nice choice and is very low profile. My knee no longer hits the air cleaner. If you want to stick with the paper element, that is what it comes with. And you should be ok if you change it every 10k. The K&N element is $60.00 more. You will also want to remap with a tuner. Also, if you are increasing the intake airflow, you should think about opening up the restricted exhaust as well. There are many after market products out there. Remember the M8 heads are extremely exhaust sensitive and don't perform well with a muffler over 4". The M8 needs a little back pressure to achieve it's low end torque potential.
#4
Hi John,
The K&N oiled cotton based filter material will stop particles from reaching your intake just as well if not better than the OEM paper. The main advantage, for me, is that the K&N is a reusable lifetime filter. If you are looking to achieve more airflow, you might want to consider replacing the air cleaner altogether. The Screaming Eagle Ventilator is a nice choice and is very low profile. My knee no longer hits the air cleaner. If you want to stick with the paper element, that is what it comes with. And you should be ok if you change it every 10k. The K&N element is $60.00 more. You will also want to remap with a tuner. Also, if you are increasing the intake airflow, you should think about opening up the restricted exhaust as well. There are many after market products out there. Remember the M8 heads are extremely exhaust sensitive and don't perform well with a muffler over 4". The M8 needs a little back pressure to achieve it's low end torque potential.
The K&N oiled cotton based filter material will stop particles from reaching your intake just as well if not better than the OEM paper. The main advantage, for me, is that the K&N is a reusable lifetime filter. If you are looking to achieve more airflow, you might want to consider replacing the air cleaner altogether. The Screaming Eagle Ventilator is a nice choice and is very low profile. My knee no longer hits the air cleaner. If you want to stick with the paper element, that is what it comes with. And you should be ok if you change it every 10k. The K&N element is $60.00 more. You will also want to remap with a tuner. Also, if you are increasing the intake airflow, you should think about opening up the restricted exhaust as well. There are many after market products out there. Remember the M8 heads are extremely exhaust sensitive and don't perform well with a muffler over 4". The M8 needs a little back pressure to achieve it's low end torque potential.
re: K&N, from my experience I 'see' no way they can possibly prevent as much "or better" fine granular silty sediment and airborne contaminants from passing through the filter media as OEM paper. hold them both up to a light source and then look at what collects in a wash tub after cleaning them and it's painfully obvious to come to the conclusion OEM paper traps finer dirt...think people buy into the marketing statements and claims too much
re: muffler size, seems performance discrepancies have more to do with baffle size that OD of mufflers, 4.5" SE Street Canons perform great and provide plenty of "back pressure to achieve it's low end torque potential" so your statement I believe is too general and not entirely accurate
#5
just curious how you are qualifying these statements
re: K&N, from my experience I 'see' no way they can possibly prevent as much "or better" fine granular silty sediment and airborne contaminants from passing through the filter media as OEM paper. hold them both up to a light source and then look at what collects in a wash tub after cleaning them and it's painfully obvious to come to the conclusion OEM paper traps finer dirt...think people buy into the marketing statements and claims too much
re: muffler size, seems performance discrepancies have more to do with baffle size that OD of mufflers, 4.5" SE Street Canons perform great and provide plenty of "back pressure to achieve it's low end torque potential" so your statement I believe is too general and not entirely accurate
re: K&N, from my experience I 'see' no way they can possibly prevent as much "or better" fine granular silty sediment and airborne contaminants from passing through the filter media as OEM paper. hold them both up to a light source and then look at what collects in a wash tub after cleaning them and it's painfully obvious to come to the conclusion OEM paper traps finer dirt...think people buy into the marketing statements and claims too much
re: muffler size, seems performance discrepancies have more to do with baffle size that OD of mufflers, 4.5" SE Street Canons perform great and provide plenty of "back pressure to achieve it's low end torque potential" so your statement I believe is too general and not entirely accurate
#6
#7
My thinking is that the oiled element would trap the fine particles; although, this is just my opinion and after some thought, I'm thinking that so would the paper. Washing out each filter to determine which has trapped more dirt is a good idea. If one could have them each on different bikes that have run side by side in the same conditions, this would be an accurate and scientific assessment. As far as the diameter of exhaust, this would very much depend on what is inside the tube, of course, and yes it was a very general statement. The 4.5 Street Cannons might have the right baffling to prevent the inversion that is created with a larger diameter exhaust. So, maybe size doesn't matter.
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#8
I think what you will find is that the K&N improves air flow. This might be done by sacrificing filtration. I looked at a test that was done in 2003 that bore this out. You have to remember that's 15 years that both types of filtration have had a chance to make improvements. Here is the crux of the article.
"Each test filter was used in the same car, on the same roads for 500 miles. The darker deposits indicate poorer filtration, and lighter ones better filtration. That said, both the cotton gauze type (K&N) and foam filters (Amsoil & Jackson Racing) showed the same levels of filtration. Both performed poorly compared to the fiberous or paper filters (Napa, Baldwin, and Mazda)."
" In the end, paper or fiberous filters do remove more particles from the air before they enter your engine. The cotton gauze filters indeed offer better airflow. You have to decide for yourself whether you value every last ounce of power or filtration."
Here is a link to a performance test between stock, aftermarket, and K&N air filters. It was interesting.
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forum...-1#Post4925424
Here is a link to aftermarket air cleaner testing that Steve Cole did on the M8. Unfortunately it doesn't show the stock air cleaner, but I do have a dyno that we did when we were cam testing showing the difference between the stock AC and the Arlen Ness Big Sucker for the stock cover that Steve refers to as the S-1 in his tests.
https://www.hdforums.com/forum/milwa...round-2-a.html
Here's that dyno run.
The green is the stock air cleaner and the red is the S-1 Arlen Ness. So you can see as the rpm comes up and more air is needed the S-1, which uses a K&N or K&N type filter is moving more air and getting more power. This was a stock M8 107. The question, is it worth it on a stock motor? Probably not.
"Each test filter was used in the same car, on the same roads for 500 miles. The darker deposits indicate poorer filtration, and lighter ones better filtration. That said, both the cotton gauze type (K&N) and foam filters (Amsoil & Jackson Racing) showed the same levels of filtration. Both performed poorly compared to the fiberous or paper filters (Napa, Baldwin, and Mazda)."
" In the end, paper or fiberous filters do remove more particles from the air before they enter your engine. The cotton gauze filters indeed offer better airflow. You have to decide for yourself whether you value every last ounce of power or filtration."
Here is a link to a performance test between stock, aftermarket, and K&N air filters. It was interesting.
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forum...-1#Post4925424
Here is a link to aftermarket air cleaner testing that Steve Cole did on the M8. Unfortunately it doesn't show the stock air cleaner, but I do have a dyno that we did when we were cam testing showing the difference between the stock AC and the Arlen Ness Big Sucker for the stock cover that Steve refers to as the S-1 in his tests.
https://www.hdforums.com/forum/milwa...round-2-a.html
Here's that dyno run.
The green is the stock air cleaner and the red is the S-1 Arlen Ness. So you can see as the rpm comes up and more air is needed the S-1, which uses a K&N or K&N type filter is moving more air and getting more power. This was a stock M8 107. The question, is it worth it on a stock motor? Probably not.
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#9
Thanks
Hi John,
The K&N oiled cotton based filter material will stop particles from reaching your intake just as well if not better than the OEM paper. The main advantage, for me, is that the K&N is a reusable lifetime filter. If you are looking to achieve more airflow, you might want to consider replacing the air cleaner altogether. The Screaming Eagle Ventilator is a nice choice and is very low profile. My knee no longer hits the air cleaner. If you want to stick with the paper element, that is what it comes with. And you should be ok if you change it every 10k. The K&N element is $60.00 more. You will also want to remap with a tuner. Also, if you are increasing the intake airflow, you should think about opening up the restricted exhaust as well. There are many after market products out there. Remember the M8 heads are extremely exhaust sensitive and don't perform well with a muffler over 4". The M8 needs a little back pressure to achieve it's low end torque potential.
The K&N oiled cotton based filter material will stop particles from reaching your intake just as well if not better than the OEM paper. The main advantage, for me, is that the K&N is a reusable lifetime filter. If you are looking to achieve more airflow, you might want to consider replacing the air cleaner altogether. The Screaming Eagle Ventilator is a nice choice and is very low profile. My knee no longer hits the air cleaner. If you want to stick with the paper element, that is what it comes with. And you should be ok if you change it every 10k. The K&N element is $60.00 more. You will also want to remap with a tuner. Also, if you are increasing the intake airflow, you should think about opening up the restricted exhaust as well. There are many after market products out there. Remember the M8 heads are extremely exhaust sensitive and don't perform well with a muffler over 4". The M8 needs a little back pressure to achieve it's low end torque potential.
Last edited by John Imm (John); 02-19-2019 at 04:32 AM.
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