Stage 1, Decat and Warranty
#21
07-11-2019, 12:32 PM
You are wrong. The dealer has to report it in order for the MoCo to void the warranty. I happen to know an '18 RGS owner that decatted his stock header and has had his bike to the dealer for warranty work. They haven't said a word about it, and HD is none the wiser.
There is no instant warranty voiding going on...some dealers are either naive or STILL looking the other way for stuff like this. Here in the great state of Nebraska, we have no EPA emission testing, so it's fairly easy to get away with things. Hence, COULD is still the operative word.
There is no instant warranty voiding going on...some dealers are either naive or STILL looking the other way for stuff like this. Here in the great state of Nebraska, we have no EPA emission testing, so it's fairly easy to get away with things. Hence, COULD is still the operative word.
#22
07-11-2019, 01:21 PM
so....a Trike is a whole different monster, because the air behind your right thigh does not circulate, my wife got second degree burns & blisters on her trike.
the trick is to Mod the stock air Box:
https://www.hdforums.com/forum/touri...r-housing.html
we did the Air box mod, and the bike was AWESOME to ride, nice & cool with air flow behind the right leg.
then, we spent ~$1000 and did the Stage 1, removed the CAT, with a HD Air cleaner, HD pipes, HD tuner (SEPST?)
and the bike is HOTTER with the Stage 1, than it was with the Modified Air box, because now, the round style air cleaner blocks the air from flowing around the inside of your right leg,
and the rear trike fender blocks the air flow out of that area.
does the bike RUN better? yes!
does it still cause blisters on the rear of your thigh? almost
it's very uncomfortable with the big round air cleaner.
i even bought a longer bolt & spaced out the Evo style cover, and it's still HOT behind your thigh.
DK customs will jump in here, and he has done a TON of Mods on Trikes, some are $459 each (oil filter re-locate & oil cooler),
you should definitely try the modified air box before you try those, just to enjoy riding the bike.
the trick is to Mod the stock air Box:
https://www.hdforums.com/forum/touri...r-housing.html
we did the Air box mod, and the bike was AWESOME to ride, nice & cool with air flow behind the right leg.
then, we spent ~$1000 and did the Stage 1, removed the CAT, with a HD Air cleaner, HD pipes, HD tuner (SEPST?)
and the bike is HOTTER with the Stage 1, than it was with the Modified Air box, because now, the round style air cleaner blocks the air from flowing around the inside of your right leg,
and the rear trike fender blocks the air flow out of that area.
does the bike RUN better? yes!
does it still cause blisters on the rear of your thigh? almost
it's very uncomfortable with the big round air cleaner.i even bought a longer bolt & spaced out the Evo style cover, and it's still HOT behind your thigh.
DK customs will jump in here, and he has done a TON of Mods on Trikes, some are $459 each (oil filter re-locate & oil cooler),
you should definitely try the modified air box before you try those, just to enjoy riding the bike.
Question...Could you put a high flow filter in your modded air box?
#23
07-12-2019, 06:51 AM
Road Captain
A couple of quick notes,
decatting the pipe will make the bike a little louder but will not show up when the dealer plugs in their scan tool. The dealer would have to remove the muffler and look into the pipe to see that you decatted the pipe. The O2 sensors are before the cat so the computer has no way of knowing that you removed the cat. If you leave the mufflers and intake stock there is no reason to add a tune.
If you use an aftermarket tuner as soon as the bike is plugged in the Harley system voids your power train warranty. John Maxwell has a good video on YouTube explaining this.
decatting the pipe will make the bike a little louder but will not show up when the dealer plugs in their scan tool. The dealer would have to remove the muffler and look into the pipe to see that you decatted the pipe. The O2 sensors are before the cat so the computer has no way of knowing that you removed the cat. If you leave the mufflers and intake stock there is no reason to add a tune.
If you use an aftermarket tuner as soon as the bike is plugged in the Harley system voids your power train warranty. John Maxwell has a good video on YouTube explaining this.
Last edited by jmeyer58; 07-12-2019 at 06:53 AM. Reason: Correction
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cruisinmann (07-12-2019)
#24
07-12-2019, 08:19 AM
You are wrong. The dealer has to report it in order for the MoCo to void the warranty. I happen to know an '18 RGS owner that decatted his stock header and has had his bike to the dealer for warranty work. They haven't said a word about it, and HD is none the wiser.
There is no instant warranty voiding going on...some dealers are either naive or STILL looking the other way for stuff like this. Here in the great state of Nebraska, we have no EPA emission testing, so it's fairly easy to get away with things. Hence, COULD is still the operative word.
There is no instant warranty voiding going on...some dealers are either naive or STILL looking the other way for stuff like this. Here in the great state of Nebraska, we have no EPA emission testing, so it's fairly easy to get away with things. Hence, COULD is still the operative word.
It just happened on my 2017 RCU, with Cobra Exhaust system, Stage 1 Aircleaner, and Stage 1 download (dealer used a PowerVision tuner and did all the work back in Aug 2017). MoCo voided my powertrain warranty. They wouldn't even cover the oil transfer issue, which has been known since SEP 2017.
And, oh, take your NON-Stock bike to a dealer in California for an oil change, when you're on a road trip...they throw you off the property due to excessive fines by the State/EPA.
Last edited by rossn2; 07-12-2019 at 08:23 AM.
#25
07-13-2019, 02:31 PM
Road Warrior
The whole decat thing is silly in some respects.
HD is not the EPA police and the average mechanic and dealer could care less about a cat, simple as that. They want your business!
Yes of course anyone will know it was removed because you will smell the exhaust fumes.
Last I can remember the EPA does not require any motor vehicle brought in for service to have a mandatory catalytic converter inspection, no matter if it's a boat, car, truck or bike... Really talking silly here, as long as your warranty claim is unrelated to cat removal.
HD is not the EPA police and the average mechanic and dealer could care less about a cat, simple as that. They want your business!
Yes of course anyone will know it was removed because you will smell the exhaust fumes.
Last I can remember the EPA does not require any motor vehicle brought in for service to have a mandatory catalytic converter inspection, no matter if it's a boat, car, truck or bike... Really talking silly here, as long as your warranty claim is unrelated to cat removal.
Last edited by alarmdoug; 07-13-2019 at 02:33 PM.
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Elcompa123 (05-04-2021)
#26
07-13-2019, 02:45 PM
Seasoned HDF Member
The whole decat thing is silly in some respects.
HD is not the EPA police and the average mechanic and dealer could care less about a cat, simple as that. They want your business!
Yes of course anyone will know it was removed because you will smell the exhaust fumes.
Last I can remember the EPA does not require any motor vehicle brought in for service to have a mandatory catalytic converter inspection, no matter if it's a boat, car, truck or bike... Really talking silly here, as long as your warranty claim is unrelated to cat removal.
HD is not the EPA police and the average mechanic and dealer could care less about a cat, simple as that. They want your business!
Yes of course anyone will know it was removed because you will smell the exhaust fumes.
Last I can remember the EPA does not require any motor vehicle brought in for service to have a mandatory catalytic converter inspection, no matter if it's a boat, car, truck or bike... Really talking silly here, as long as your warranty claim is unrelated to cat removal.
That said, I don't think HD actually does do emission tests in the manner with which cars are performed. If they did, bikes with decatted headers would fail automatically and the dealer would have NO say in it.
Last edited by teedoff65; 07-13-2019 at 03:44 PM.
#27
07-13-2019, 03:26 PM
Here in TN it goes by county. Nashville has emissions testing. On computer controlled cars they look for an engine light. If they see one, they plug in and make sure it is not emissions related. They sniff older cars. Not sure about bikes. Wife wouldn’t ride amongst the crazy Nashville drivers, so we didn’t get back into bikes until moving to West TN, which has no emissions testing.
#28
07-13-2019, 06:06 PM
So what if you install an S&S 50 state complete system? What HD wants us to believe is that they void the warranty because You are no longer emissions legal...and that only their parts installed by a dealer can get you there while being emissions legal.
what if you can be emissions legal without using their parts and labor? Would this be an opportunity to remind the of magnuson-moss?
Actually, as long as the bike meets the emissions standards where it is registered, they should not be able to void the warranty. Your proof of compliance is your plates. I think EPA excuse is a convenient way to force us down their road. If they made better stuff and decent prices, they wouldn’t have to do that.
what if you can be emissions legal without using their parts and labor? Would this be an opportunity to remind the of magnuson-moss?
Actually, as long as the bike meets the emissions standards where it is registered, they should not be able to void the warranty. Your proof of compliance is your plates. I think EPA excuse is a convenient way to force us down their road. If they made better stuff and decent prices, they wouldn’t have to do that.
#29
07-13-2019, 07:58 PM
This is not correct, the dealer doesn't report anything to MoCo. The minute the TECH hooks up the Scan Tool, the information is sent directly to MoCo, if there's anything different within the ECM factory settings, and you have anything that comprises EPA rules, MoCo voids your power train warranty and they will not even tell the customer. I took my bike in for the Clutch recall and dang TECH hooked up the Scan Tool without ever informing me.
It just happened on my 2017 RCU, with Cobra Exhaust system, Stage 1 Aircleaner, and Stage 1 download (dealer used a PowerVision tuner and did all the work back in Aug 2017). MoCo voided my powertrain warranty. They wouldn't even cover the oil transfer issue, which has been known since SEP 2017.
And, oh, take your NON-Stock bike to a dealer in California for an oil change, when you're on a road trip...they throw you off the property due to excessive fines by the State/EPA.
It just happened on my 2017 RCU, with Cobra Exhaust system, Stage 1 Aircleaner, and Stage 1 download (dealer used a PowerVision tuner and did all the work back in Aug 2017). MoCo voided my powertrain warranty. They wouldn't even cover the oil transfer issue, which has been known since SEP 2017.
And, oh, take your NON-Stock bike to a dealer in California for an oil change, when you're on a road trip...they throw you off the property due to excessive fines by the State/EPA.
#30
07-13-2019, 08:01 PM
So what if you install an S&S 50 state complete system? What HD wants us to believe is that they void the warranty because You are no longer emissions legal...and that only their parts installed by a dealer can get you there while being emissions legal.
what if you can be emissions legal without using their parts and labor? Would this be an opportunity to remind the of magnuson-moss?
Actually, as long as the bike meets the emissions standards where it is registered, they should not be able to void the warranty. Your proof of compliance is your plates. I think EPA excuse is a convenient way to force us down their road. If they made better stuff and decent prices, they wouldn’t have to do that.
what if you can be emissions legal without using their parts and labor? Would this be an opportunity to remind the of magnuson-moss?
Actually, as long as the bike meets the emissions standards where it is registered, they should not be able to void the warranty. Your proof of compliance is your plates. I think EPA excuse is a convenient way to force us down their road. If they made better stuff and decent prices, they wouldn’t have to do that.