Now that I am considering a CVO, I'm wondering if there's any that have sumped.
Should I be worried? Even if it's a 2020?
I know the warranty is there, I just would hate to deal with the hassle.

 

I would think that the redesigned 2020 oil pump with 40% more scavaging would have finally solved the sumping issue, but only time will tell.

 

I’ve had a ‘17 and a ‘19 CVO for a combined 16k miles. Neither of them have had any signs of sumping. The ‘19 burns a little more oil than I am used to, about a quart in 4K miles, but that’s the only issue. I really don’t worry about sumping I just ride. If something happens either warranty will fix it or I will go with an aftermarket build. A friend of mine has an ‘18 that he rides a lot more aggressive than I do. He hits the red line on a regular basis, again no issues at all for him.
I’m sure you’ll get plenty of responses that say they have sumped as some bikes do, including the CVOs. I’m not sure anyone truly knows what percentage of bikes have sumped but I have to think it is a small amount.

 

Back when sumping was a thing, we would see as many as two or three reports of sumping every week. And it also seemed that at least half of those reports were CVOs. Considering how few CVOs are sold in comparison to standard bikes, the lingering impression is that CVOs are far more likely to sump than regular Harleys. Why? We don't know. I suspect it's largely due to the Stage IV kit, which many CVO owners get.

If you want to sump, get a CVO and put a Stage IV on it.

If you want to avoid sumping, a CVO might not be the best bet, although each individual bike needs to be evaluated individually. Even Shartwave couldn't sump his last Stage IV CVO no matter how hard he tried.

If I wanted a CVO, the only one I would consider is the 2020 with the upgraded scavenging pump. You can upgrade an earlier CVO with the new pump, but how do you know it never sumped and never had any damage due to it before you got it? The odds are against it, of course, but If I am spending that much I'm not interested in buying someone else's problem.

Nowadays sumping reports are at near zero, maybe we hear of one a month but that's it. The odds of getting a new sumper seems pretty low.

 

Pretty fair assessment. Its very possible that the issues of transfer and sumping could possibly be fully resolved. A little more experience with the latest oil pump and we can probably say sumping on the M8 is a thing of the past. At least as long as the latest oil pump is installed.

 

Why worry, get it and enjoy it. I have never had a problem with my 2019 CVO RG, never read any thread with sumping in the title just kills the enjoyment. if something happens then take it to be fixed. The bigger problem is all the shitty black parts not holding up to a breeze without looking sandblasted.

 

My standard answer to this is: The majority of people should not get the ESP. Because:

I’m speaking from experience, working in a Fortune 200 company that offered extended service plans, and the people that administered those plans were part of my organization. Harley, like my company, likely has an organization that plans and administers the ESP plans. The organization has reliability engineers and financial analysts. They analyze millions of service records, complemented with internal testing, and can predict within a few $ of what the service cost will be on every motorcycle model. Short of surprises , and there is a buffer for those, they are going to make at least 39% gross margin on their ESPs. The distribution will likely be some type of exponential function, such that they make money on the majority, and lose money on a lot less bikes than they make money on.

So, your question is then, where will your bike fall? Will you be the roughly 75% that Harley makes money from, or the 25% that they lose money on?

If your budget can not handle a financial surprise, then you might be better off getting the ESP for peace of mind. If a surprise expense won’t kill you, then you might be better off not getting the ESP, saving the ESP fee...or not...and paying as you go, or just doing your own service. As well, then you don’t have to go through a bunch of crap to get warranty work done.

Yeah, everyone says they or someone they know was way ahead. But, obviously not everyone is way ahead, or Harley would charge more for the ESP, same as 3rd party ESP providers.

My personal experience is:

When I bought my new 2012 TriGlide, I bought the ESP, and the wheel and tire coverage. Through the life of my warranty, Harley did the following:

- replaced the voltage regulator

- rebuilt the Throttle position sensor connector

- repaired an oil leak on the inner primary gasket, and rocker cover.

While under ESP, I Did the following repairs my self, because they either claimed it was not covered, or they couldn’t replicate, or “they all do that”...or some other crap:

- replaced rear brake rotors...with just 7,000 miles

- adjusted rear parking brake every 2,000 miles

- quarterly adjusted & lubed, and replaced a few times, rear trunk door latch to keep them damn thing from coming open

- replaced clutch

- replaced compensator with Baker compensator.

I calculate that I lost $1,500!

By the way, unless you ride the Ho Chi Ming trail every day, and/or are willing to put a screw in your tires every 10,000 miles...the tire and wheel coverage is the stupidest thing you can buy for your bike.

 

The only other variable to consider is "complexity". The more complex your bike is, the more failure points it has and therefore the higher odds are that an ESP will come into play.

On a CVO, you have: heated seat, heated grips, garage door opener, CB, Intercom, Power locks, Remote key fob, higher end LEDs, XM Sirius module, LEDs inside TP/Saddlebags, TPMS. Most of these upgrades are not available on lower factory models but obviously are at greater risk of failure vs a bike without them. So owners that buy an ESP on lower end models are essentially subsidizing the higher failure rates on the more complex bikes.

 

5 year ESP w/T&W for $1900 seemed like a no brainer for me on my 2020..should be over 60,000 miles by then and with the Infotainment, RDRS, etc man one thing could be $2000...the ESPs we had on our 2017 would have covered the expenses of repairs had they not been covered under the factory two year...and the third year we got some coverage out of it, and got fair prorated refunds to go towards the new ESPs...we got 2020s recently but if we had kept the old ones for the 4 year remaining duration projecting 80,000 miles apiece I'd be shocked if it wouldn't have paid off