Another plastic lifter cuffs question
Club Member
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 11,578
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From: Inland NW
I need to find that one pic, the lifter was wadded up in the guide, and of course broke the guide, and the axle and the bore of the roller was still in good shape. The roller now had an understandably "machined" flat spot on it where it ran perpendicular to the cam lobe for as long as it took to shut down.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 19,921
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From: poway
I have no idea, possibly none. My prior post where I brought up the posts by guys here where the lifters turned 90* and wiped out the cam is up for speculation. I speculated.
I need to find that one pic, the lifter was wadded up in the guide, and of course broke the guide, and the axle and the bore of the roller was still in good shape. The roller now had an understandably "machined" flat spot on it where it ran perpendicular to the cam lobe for as long as it took to shut down.
I need to find that one pic, the lifter was wadded up in the guide, and of course broke the guide, and the axle and the bore of the roller was still in good shape. The roller now had an understandably "machined" flat spot on it where it ran perpendicular to the cam lobe for as long as it took to shut down.
HD EFI Guru
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,488
Likes: 4,774
Max,
I don't want to see anything loose inside an engine, especially any phenolic devices. I have witnessed several failures over my career of plastic pieces be it they drive gears, shaft couplings, guides, deflectors, etc. I just worry about something getting "bumped" by a lifter's motion 1000 or so times per minute.
You are correct about their design and purpose, and I certainly regret portraying any "sky is falling" winter thread phenomena that many here are reading into. I have many posts here saying in fact that there was no need to change them, but now with isolated reports of them being loose, I start to see possibilities related to other phenolic internal engine "components" failures that I have seen (all of which came loose, for various reasons)
My issue, and I will certainly keep it to myself going forward
I don't want to see anything loose inside an engine, especially any phenolic devices. I have witnessed several failures over my career of plastic pieces be it they drive gears, shaft couplings, guides, deflectors, etc. I just worry about something getting "bumped" by a lifter's motion 1000 or so times per minute.
You are correct about their design and purpose, and I certainly regret portraying any "sky is falling" winter thread phenomena that many here are reading into. I have many posts here saying in fact that there was no need to change them, but now with isolated reports of them being loose, I start to see possibilities related to other phenolic internal engine "components" failures that I have seen (all of which came loose, for various reasons)
My issue, and I will certainly keep it to myself going forward
I would like to know what people are calling loose? The lifter cuff's hold two lifters and the center bolt tightens on a sleeve in the plastic that allow the cuff to move slightly by design. There is no reason for them to be fixed in place, just retained. Many diesel engines have been running for hundred of thousands of miles with rebuilds every 500,000 - 1,000,000 miles and guess what holds the lifter guides in place........... a spring that allows the guide plate to move. Just a little food for thought.
Club Member
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 11,578
Likes: 8,406
From: Inland NW
I would like to know what people are calling loose? The lifter cuff's hold two lifters and the center bolt tightens on a sleeve in the plastic that allow the cuff to move slightly by design. There is no reason for them to be fixed in place, just retained. Many diesel engines have been running for hundred of thousands of miles with rebuilds every 500,000 - 1,000,000 miles and guess what holds the lifter guides in place........... a spring that allows the guide plate to move. Just a little food for thought.
Steve, these are designed to move? Why then are we placing the aftermarket retainer with specific clearance, then torquing? I have actually double checked mine while in the camchest again, and they maintain that clearance (checked with a feeler gauge)
I am curious which diesel engine you are referring to above.
Thanks Steve!
Club Member
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 11,578
Likes: 8,406
From: Inland NW
In those cases it was the chicken and egg issue.. 99c lifters use a different method than previous lifters to hold the roller pin in place.. Previous lifters swaged the pin. 99c used clips to hold the pin in place.. Pin comes loose. Roller locks up, skids then lifter turns. This same issue occurs on TCs. Most of the time the lifter doesn't turn but the lifter still damages the lifter hole in the engine case.
Cruiser
Joined: Nov 2021
Posts: 146
Likes: 104
From: CA
I would like to know what people are calling loose? The lifter cuff's hold two lifters and the center bolt tightens on a sleeve in the plastic that allow the cuff to move slightly by design. There is no reason for them to be fixed in place, just retained. Many diesel engines have been running for hundred of thousands of miles with rebuilds every 500,000 - 1,000,000 miles and guess what holds the lifter guides in place........... a spring that allows the guide plate to move. Just a little food for thought.
The only reason I discovered it was because the cuff moved when I lowered the lifters down from the cam chest and when I went to install the new ones, the new ones didn't fit until I stuck my fingers through the lifter cover and pivoted the cuffs.
I'm guessing that when both lifters are in place the cuff probably wouldn't be able to be pivoted. But I also didn't want to find out my guess was wrong and since I couldn't get new stock plastic lifter cuffs that day I replaced them with the S&S ones
HD EFI Guru
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,488
Likes: 4,774
In my case, it was loose in the sense that I was able to move it by hand fairly easily but the movement was limited to pivoting along the horizontal plane of the retaining bolt(no vertical movement).
The only reason I discovered it was because the cuff moved when I lowered the lifters down from the cam chest and when I went to install the new ones, the new ones didn't fit until I stuck my fingers through the lifter cover and pivoted the cuffs.
I'm guessing that when both lifters are in place the cuff probably wouldn't be able to be pivoted. But I also didn't want to find out my guess was wrong and since I couldn't get new stock plastic lifter cuffs that day I replaced them with the S&S ones
The only reason I discovered it was because the cuff moved when I lowered the lifters down from the cam chest and when I went to install the new ones, the new ones didn't fit until I stuck my fingers through the lifter cover and pivoted the cuffs.
I'm guessing that when both lifters are in place the cuff probably wouldn't be able to be pivoted. But I also didn't want to find out my guess was wrong and since I couldn't get new stock plastic lifter cuffs that day I replaced them with the S&S ones
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