I can't say it has the same specs as the Amsoil test, but years ago when I was discussing this on another forum I provided those specs. I was told by one of the Amsoil faithful that the RP test was invalid because it was "too tough" and not designed for depicting an engine environment. Perhaps so, but I dare say that if that test is a stretch of reality, so is the Amsoil test. Besides, if it subjects an oil to an environment that exceeds that of an engine, why wouldn't its effectiveness in a real-world arena not be a reflection of such a test? A wear-ball test is a wear-ball test, and if oils are subjected to it equally it may tell us something about the oil's ability to resist wear. Like I said before, I'm on the fence on this one and don't know how valid these tests are for determining an oil's anti-friction effectiveness. The fact that Exxon-Mobil says they're invalid is an indicator there may be validity problems.

 

I use Amsoil and think it's a good product overall. Some oils may be better at some things than others, but none are great at everything. My only complaint with Ams is it appears to be slightly weaker in viscostiy that say HD 20/50 dino. The engine was ever so slightly noisier when I changed. I attribute this to possible more lifter bleed down. Would I go back, hell no, but may consider purchasing the Ams 60 weight and add 1/2 quart per change to thicken it up a bit in the hot summer months. Just because some oils have moly, or tons of zinc,phosphorousetc, they can also have a negetive effect down the road with all the different metals in the engine. Moly may cause valve sticking, Zinc has been known to eat certain main and rod bearings and phosphorous (sp) can do a number on bronze bushings. I'm happy with the formula of Ams and will stay with it.
Ron

 

Having moly, zinc, and phosphorus additives in your oil doesn't mean there are "metals in the engine," over and above what metals were there originally, anyway. I'm no chemist, but it's been explained to me that these compounds are "on a molecular level" and there are no metal pieces floating around in the oil, per se, certainly nothing large enough to be captured by the oil filter. All of the above mentioned compounds are commonly used and very effective anti-friction additives.

Your suggestion that moly "may cause valve sticking" is the first such suggestion I've heard in 45 years of accumulating knowledge of cars and MC's. Could you provide some sort of evidence to support this notion? I'm not doubting your claim without a fair trial, but just want more info on the subject, as I'm here to learn. It is interesting that if it indeed causes such problems there should be lots of cars on the road with sticking valves, and I haven't heard of any. Moly is a very common additive in modern oils, and AFAIK zinc and phosphorus are in nearly all oils, including Amsoil. Your assertions about zinc and phosphorus are new to me, too.

 

[hr]


iclick: I realize they are chemical compounds, not some old farm wife with a paring knife cutting chunks of metal off and adding it to oil.Could not find the aircraft article on moly andvalve stickingbut found something more disturbing about it. I found it interesting and unexpected.[/align]Moly in Engine Oil,


Check out the OEM bulletin from Cummins. It is the Cummins Engine Oil Recommendations, Bulletin No. 3810340-02 . Its probably best if you stopped by a Cummins Dealer and purchased this bulletin- about $2 or $3.
On page 7 it has a section on FRICTION MODIFIERS states:
"There is firm evidence that certain friction modifiers, molybdenum dithiophosphate for example, can in certain formulations result in cam follower pin failure at relatively low mileage"........

From years working with engine test programs to approve engine oil formulations for API licensing, we can tell you that NO engine oil containing Molybdenum additives has been certified by the full range of engine tests necessary to gain API approval.

Molybdenum compounds in motor oils can degrade and cause bearing corrosion and is particularly aggressive towards copper. In almost all cases, any engine oil formula having "moly" will also contain a Copper Deactivator which will protect bearings from the moly compounds. The only problem, the copper deactivator decomposes at relatively low temperatures and looses it's potency after a few thousand miles.[/align][/align]iclick: I have to point out that none of these additives are needed unless metal to metal has happened as in flat tappet camshafts on startup. Until then they are useless.. All bronze bushings contain lots of copper as in wrist pins , valve guideswhich leads one to believe oil selectionis a lot morethan picking one with the most antiwear ingredients like moly. Let's face it regular HD 20/50 dino has almost nothing worthwhile in it other than crude. The engine will still go 100k, but due to heat it should be changed more often. If you put the oil in a small block chevy, the cam would be gone in a couple of days. Bring on the zinc.[/align]Ron[/align]

 

I recently purchased AMSOIL for my 05 Train, and am getting ready to do the service because of all the things I have read (ie. riders testamonies, tests, other websites) and found AMSOIL to be better on paper. At this point I have not done the service with the AMSOIL products, so I can't tell anyone if I have noticed a difference. I will say this though..... and forgive me if someone has already pointed this out, but when I read the tests from the link above to the xlrator website done by Blackstone labs, I noticed what seemed like 90% of the oils tested were taken out of "Motorcycle Consumer News, Oil Investigation Update. 2003", while only four or five of the oils were tested by Blackstone. I know there are die hard AMSOIL fans out there, and I know there are a ton of guys that will only use HD products.... I am neither (yet), but I will say that I have run HD Syn 20-50 in my train for the past 10k and my bike is still going... The reason I am not mentioning Mobil is because I know nothing about it other than the auto side (which there are a lot of automakers that recommend Mobil 1). In my personal, and in no way professional, opinion...... Whatever floats your boat man!!

 

ASTM is the American Society for Testing Materials. Using a test does not guarantee that it was the right test, it just means that you used it and (hopefully) did it in a manner that can be reasonably reproduced. All of the oil testing I have seen has a corresponding ASTM reference. My inference, in case I was being too subtle, is that Amsoil picks that test (and none of the other more standard tests) because they know they will do well compared to the others.

I suppose it is different but I have not tested it. One way to maintain "freshness" marketing-wise is to constantly have a new product. "New and Improved" has to be better than "Old and Ordinary", right? Change a couple things (slightly) here and there and presto! A new (and of cours emore expensive) product!

You'll also notice he's an Amsoil dealer. I on the other hand have no financial interest with ANY particular brand of oil, except for having chosen one to protect the engine that I paid for.

At one time there was a reference to the testing lab used - and subsequent to that it was shown to be a wholly owned subsidiary of Amsoil. This is based on my memory which may be faulty, but to the best of my recollection that's how it shook out.

So? I'm an individual and frankly can't afford to test every oil out there. When I did the test however it was a reasonable assumption that the data was fresh enough to represent the oils tested. It's also why I documented and referenced all of my sources - that's not something you see from any of the oil vendors.

Anyway ... on this thread we have a prime example of the problem: "I use Amsoil and have never had any problems, therefore Amsoil is the best!". Well I have news for you. I have a friend's 1968 XLCH at home (almost identical to my own) that has had nothing but the cheapest 60wt that the owner could find in it. It's been ridden the better part of it's 40 years and is just becoming tired. Am I to therefore believe that K-Mart branded recycled oil is therefore the best? Frankly I think riders, especially H-D riders, do more damage to the engines by blipping the throttle at stoplights than they ever will with the wrong oil.

 

Is this the letter you make reference to?

http://www.spectro-oils.com/letters.htm

I read your charts and was wondering why you do not list Amsoil for comparison also?
Bob


Check out the 'letters' page on our site for more info about this (below)....you will see an Amsoil graph that depicts their oils as having the highest content of ZDDP additive of allmotorcycle oils....this is completely a false statement.

Compare these ZDDP numbers for their 20w50 oil to our numbers for our 20w50 oil on my graph and you will see.

You will see that they also like to compare our oil to their oil, but, they chose to do it in the most misleading way possible....by choosing our synthetic 5w40 racing oil to compare with their 20w50 oil for a street Harley. We beat all their oils for ZDDP additive content and when compared fairly, 20w50 to 20w50, we also beat their oils in the 4 ball wear tests.

 

So honestly... It looks like SPECTRO oil is the best choice for bike oils.

 

Right off hand I know of at least one engine oil that seems contrary to this statement- Valvoline MaxLife has moly in it and is certified API SM/SL.
http://www.valvoline.com/products/Maxlife.pdf

I'm sure there are probably others as well...

 

I have used the golden spectro labeled for HD Transmissions in past bikes and the difference in shifting is most noticeable for the better. You can find it in a lot of dealers unlike other brands that are pushed on the forums for profit.