How much is just right?
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Grand HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 4,923
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From: Deep in the heart of New Jersey
How much is just right?
Been reading these oil posts for years and I have a question that I can't find an answer for. Harley markets oil that they say to use in their bikes. Now they have told the oil mfgr to put certain amounts of additive in it to give the motor what they feel it needs for a long engine life. You can check the voa's on "Bob is the oil guys" site and see whats in their oil. So if you check the other oil mfgr's numbers for Calcium, phos,zinc, and moly theres alot with higher amounts then what Harley puts in their oil. So the question is, what is the required amount of additives needed for a long motor life? I can't believe using an oil with three times what Harley uses does anything for longevity, especially when it will be dumped long before the oil's usefull life is up.
Road Warrior
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,950
Likes: 2
From: Colorado Springs, CO
A lot depends on how long you go before changing the oil. Oils with high levels of anti-wear additives will last a lot longer in the crank case. If you're the type of person who doesn't sleep well at night unless they change the oil every 2,500 miles, then a high quality/expensive oil is a waste.
But, if you're an engineer type who follows the science, then read the UOA's along with the VOA's, and find the oil that wil last the longest. Then change the oil when it needs it.
But, if you're an engineer type who follows the science, then read the UOA's along with the VOA's, and find the oil that wil last the longest. Then change the oil when it needs it.
Big Kahuna HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 23,881
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From: USA
I just shop for sale oils and stock up. I got redline 20w50 for $4/qt when AAP discontinued it. I still have 2 more years supply. Then I use my dealer "sale" coupons to get 25% off HD filters & gaskets etc. It all comes out cheaper than HD dino in the end. FWIW, redline has the most moly count of all the oils. I run a high performance oil because it will allow me in some years to only chaneg the oil once. The RL shockproof heavy trans lube can go 30,000 miles. Some guys run it 4-5 years with no problems. I'll go 3 years on the trans. RL MTL will easily go 7500 miles in your primary. So in years where I ride less than 6000 miles I change the engine & primary once. Never any metal on the magnets...that is what you get for high anti wear additives.
Some guys on here run Amsoil 10,000 miles in their engine....
Some guys on here run Amsoil 10,000 miles in their engine....
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Grand HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 4,923
Likes: 266
From: Deep in the heart of New Jersey
I'm not looking for an oil recommendation or oil change interval . What I would like to know is what oil formula Harley states is required for use in the motor. I'm leaning towards their voa contents as being what Harley feels is all their motors need. Theres lots of oils that have additives that exceed what Harley has put in their oils, and my thought is that they are a waste if not really needed. Does anyone have the true answer?.,,
Big Kahuna HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 23,881
Likes: 34
From: USA
I'm not looking for an oil recommendation or oil change interval . What I would like to know is what oil formula Harley states is required for use in the motor. I'm leaning towards their voa contents as being what Harley feels is all their motors need. Theres lots of oils that have additives that exceed what Harley has put in their oils, and my thought is that they are a waste if not really needed. Does anyone have the true answer?.,,
If I were to compare HD360 20w50 to find one close I would start with Havoline 20w50
BTW, Exxon Mobil will not share their formulations either in fact I don't know of any oil manufacturer who will. AND Mrs. Fields won't share her cookie recipe either....
You are kind of asking "how thick should my bullet proof vest be and not waste money?" My answer :Thick enough to stop all bullets. I never worry about wasting oil. I worry about prematurely running out of anti wear additives and trashing my engine.
Last edited by KBFXDLI; Nov 24, 2008 at 04:04 PM.
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Grand HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 4,923
Likes: 266
From: Deep in the heart of New Jersey
Actually you can tell whats in any motor oil with a voa or a uoa. thats what places like Blackstone labs do. So Harley doesn't need to tell us whats in their oil, all it takes is a sample. But what Amount of the oils basic components the motor requires like 1ppm of molybendum,1068ppm zinc,1303ppm phosphrous,1342ppm calcium,ect. would help people make an informed decision on which product to choose. As you mentioned Harleys oils don't top the list in additives, but may in price. So I'm thinking they lay out minimum levels they feel is needed then add a little more to compensate for variations in batches and to add a cushion for extreme conditions. Those numbers look like they come in lower then all their competitors, but must be all Harleys 2 cyl air cooled motor needs. By me all the big name oils cost between $9 and $14 a qt and if their extra amounts of additives don't do squat in 5k miles of use, whats the point of using them? I don't mind dumping oil down the drain, but paying top dollar for overkill oil isn't worth it to me. At what point does the lubricant become all chemical and no actual oil?
Road Master
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 765
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From: Alleghany Co., NC and SW Florida
LOL, "Goldie tried Amsoil BUT it was too noisy! Then she tried Redline but it got too spendy and hard to find. Then Goldie went to Walmart and found Mobil One 15W50 for about 4 bucks a qt. and it was JUST RIGHT!!!!!!"
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Road Master
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Hmmm, ever think that maybe HD has less additives put in their oil because less additives = less cost? I mean, since when was HD more concerned with quality than expense? All they gotta do is make it past the 2 yr factory warranty.
VicW.
VicW.
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Big Kahuna HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 23,881
Likes: 34
From: USA
Actually you can tell whats in any motor oil with a voa or a uoa. thats what places like Blackstone labs do. So Harley doesn't need to tell us whats in their oil, all it takes is a sample. But what Amount of the oils basic components the motor requires like 1ppm of molybendum,1068ppm zinc,1303ppm phosphrous,1342ppm calcium,ect. would help people make an informed decision on which product to choose. As you mentioned Harleys oils don't top the list in additives, but may in price. So I'm thinking they lay out minimum levels they feel is needed then add a little more to compensate for variations in batches and to add a cushion for extreme conditions. Those numbers look like they come in lower then all their competitors, but must be all Harleys 2 cyl air cooled motor needs. By me all the big name oils cost between $9 and $14 a qt and if their extra amounts of additives don't do squat in 5k miles of use, whats the point of using them? I don't mind dumping oil down the drain, but paying top dollar for overkill oil isn't worth it to me. At what point does the lubricant become all chemical and no actual oil?
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Grand HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 4,923
Likes: 266
From: Deep in the heart of New Jersey
oil basestocks will vary , but the anti wear additives are basicly the same.A nd a uoa will only tell you whats left in your oil after a useage period. So when you look at a voa you know what your starting out with, and the uoa tells you whats left. The anti wear package is what you should be concerned with. Check the top selling oils additive content compared to others and you will see higher numbers.Those higher numbers equate to how the oil will continue cleaning and lubricating the internals, plus they generally provide a longer service life. like mobil 1's extended performance oils can go 15k miles due to the higher additive amounts.
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