5 Micron New HD filter causing excess foam
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6th Gear
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 13
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From: Ohio
5 Micron New HD filter causing excess foam
I just changed the oil in my 05 RKC, used mobil 1 V-Twin 20w50 oil and the NEW HD 5 micron oil filter. This is my third oil change on the bike, and the only thing different this time was the use of the new filter. The condition I just noticed was after riding the bike for approx 100 miles, I checked the oil level and saw EXCESS amounts of foam in the oil tank.
Foaming was NEVER an issue prior this this and I did religiously check the oil hot. The oil level was checked with the bike on the side stand and is NOT over-full on the stick. Actually my temp guage read 210 and is just below the full mark. I have always used the Mobil 1 V-Twin oil and the HD super-premium oil filter till I was told It's no longer available and this new filter has replaced it. Here is the interesting findings. I removed the new 5 micron filter and installed one of the old 10 micron HD filters and guess what??? NO FOAMING!! It's almost like the new filter is causing the oil pump to cavitate due to flow issues due to the finer media in this new filter. I have never used any oil between services or have any abnormal engine noises at this time and have had zero problems with this fine motorcycle. Will be contacting my selling dealer to advise them of this condition. My suggestion to the group will be to pay close attention to your oil tanks for foaming with this new filter. I also forgot to mention that I did try another 5 micron filter with the same foaming results. I will post the results when found. Thanks for your time
roadking1327
05 RKC
Black
Foaming was NEVER an issue prior this this and I did religiously check the oil hot. The oil level was checked with the bike on the side stand and is NOT over-full on the stick. Actually my temp guage read 210 and is just below the full mark. I have always used the Mobil 1 V-Twin oil and the HD super-premium oil filter till I was told It's no longer available and this new filter has replaced it. Here is the interesting findings. I removed the new 5 micron filter and installed one of the old 10 micron HD filters and guess what??? NO FOAMING!! It's almost like the new filter is causing the oil pump to cavitate due to flow issues due to the finer media in this new filter. I have never used any oil between services or have any abnormal engine noises at this time and have had zero problems with this fine motorcycle. Will be contacting my selling dealer to advise them of this condition. My suggestion to the group will be to pay close attention to your oil tanks for foaming with this new filter. I also forgot to mention that I did try another 5 micron filter with the same foaming results. I will post the results when found. Thanks for your time
roadking1327
05 RKC
Black
Banned
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 14,496
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From:
RE: 5 Micron New HD filter causing excess foam
Possibly with the 5 micron, that the engine oil was bypassing the filter media a bit , but it seems strange that you didn't notice it with the 10 micron filter. What about moisture in the oil, had it been ridden for a few short trips prior to this find?
Banned
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,706
Likes: 7
From: Woodstock, Ont , Can
RE: 5 Micron New HD filter causing excess foam
5 micron is way too fine to use in an engine with a bypass. Too much oil will go unfiltered. Installed an 8 micron on my aircraft and found the bypass would not fully close until oil temp hit about 150 degrees. That takes quite a while to happen. When an engine is running with the bypass in operation the cold oil pressure is actually lower than the hot oil pressure because the pressure needed to open the bypass drops the down streem pressure by that much. Whenever flow is reduced as in fine oil filters, so does the pressure. The two generally go hand in hand. The oil pressure gauge on the plane is at the end of the line and was reading 30psi. At the inlet side of the filter the test gauge was reading 60psi. After seeing this in play when testing my planes oil system, I decided in the long run to go with a 25-30 micron. 30 micron is in around.0015 of an inch. Considering the original oil screen is about 200 microns I was still way better off. Running long periods on filter bypass seemed to defeat the reason for having a filter in the first place. To me the 5 micron and lower are only suitable for bypass filtering which is seperate from the normal full flow used to lubricate the engine. Some of the pressured oil goes to the second bypass filter which is around 2 microns and in time oil is cleaned much better. Wear on engines is reduced as micron size is reduced. Don't get fooled by that smaller micron filter being better for your engine. It's always a compromize between flow and cleaning.
Ron
Ron
Big Kahuna HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 23,881
Likes: 34
From: USA
RE: 5 Micron New HD filter causing excess foam
5 microns is probably not good for an EVO but twinkies are Ok with it. Foaming don't mean nothing......HD wants 5 micron level filtration in the newer bikes. Don't ask me why but they do. 
Cruiser
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 104
Likes: 0
From: NorCal
RE: 5 Micron New HD filter causing excess foam
The tight filter probably slows down the flow enough that there is less oil in the bottom of the crankcase where the scavenge pump draws the return oil, the scavenge pump draws less oil and more air and this causes foam.
Advanced
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 71
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RE: 5 Micron New HD filter causing excess foam
How new are these 5 micron HD oil filters ? I bought a HD oil filter last spring ( actually 2 / had 20 % off and bought 1 for 06' oil change and a second one for this years oil change) and anyway i was just at the stealer today for somemore 20% off stuff (birthday=20% off) and picked up some gaskets / plugs /engine brite / oil filters etc., and all the filters, last years and the ones i just bought today are all 5 micron and i never even thought about the microns till i read this post ???
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Road Warrior
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,327
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From: S.E.PA
RE: 5 Micron New HD filter causing excess foam
ORIGINAL: rbabos
5 micron is way too fine to use in an engine with a bypass. Too much oil will go unfiltered. Installed an 8 micron on my aircraft and found the bypass would not fully close until oil temp hit about 150 degrees. That takes quite a while to happen. When an engine is running with the bypass in operation the cold oil pressure is actually lower than the hot oil pressure because the pressure needed to open the bypass drops the down streem pressure by that much. Whenever flow is reduced as in fine oil filters, so does the pressure. The two generally go hand in hand. The oil pressure gauge on the plane is at the end of the line and was reading 30psi. At the inlet side of the filter the test gauge was reading 60psi. After seeing this in play when testing my planes oil system, I decided in the long run to go with a 25-30 micron. 30 micron is in around.0015 of an inch. Considering the original oil screen is about 200 microns I was still way better off. Running long periods on filter bypass seemed to defeat the reason for having a filter in the first place. To me the 5 micron and lower are only suitable for bypass filtering which is seperate from the normal full flow used to lubricate the engine. Some of the pressured oil goes to the second bypass filter which is around 2 microns and in time oil is cleaned much better. Wear on engines is reduced as micron size is reduced. Don't get fooled by that smaller micron filter being better for your engine. It's always a compromize between flow and cleaning.
Ron
5 micron is way too fine to use in an engine with a bypass. Too much oil will go unfiltered. Installed an 8 micron on my aircraft and found the bypass would not fully close until oil temp hit about 150 degrees. That takes quite a while to happen. When an engine is running with the bypass in operation the cold oil pressure is actually lower than the hot oil pressure because the pressure needed to open the bypass drops the down streem pressure by that much. Whenever flow is reduced as in fine oil filters, so does the pressure. The two generally go hand in hand. The oil pressure gauge on the plane is at the end of the line and was reading 30psi. At the inlet side of the filter the test gauge was reading 60psi. After seeing this in play when testing my planes oil system, I decided in the long run to go with a 25-30 micron. 30 micron is in around.0015 of an inch. Considering the original oil screen is about 200 microns I was still way better off. Running long periods on filter bypass seemed to defeat the reason for having a filter in the first place. To me the 5 micron and lower are only suitable for bypass filtering which is seperate from the normal full flow used to lubricate the engine. Some of the pressured oil goes to the second bypass filter which is around 2 microns and in time oil is cleaned much better. Wear on engines is reduced as micron size is reduced. Don't get fooled by that smaller micron filter being better for your engine. It's always a compromize between flow and cleaning.
Ron
"Don't get fooled by that smaller micron filter being better for your engine. It's always a compromize between flow and cleaning."
You must have a point, S&S on their engines say max 20 micron (no smaller) and here I already brought a AMSOIL oil filter with a bypass, I don't no what size it stops, but I can beat w/o knowing it's smaller than 10 microns !!! and I think S&S doesn't want you to use a "by-pass" filter, either this I will check on, I am in real crap now !
cj
Ok, just checked,
S&S wants 24 microns and "does-not" have a "anti drain-back valve"
AMSOIL filter #EAOM135 (4.0" L.) has 15 microns and no "anti drain-back valve"
but their hd filter #EAOM134 which is smaller 3.24" L. than the 135 does have "anti drain-back valve"
So I am not going to take a chance w/the AMSOIL oil filters during break-in, I'll use something closer to 24 microns, maybe later I will use a 15, maybe.
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Banned
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,706
Likes: 7
From: Woodstock, Ont , Can
RE: 5 Micron New HD filter causing excess foam
cj: If a filter is used without a bypass valve and it plugs up, the engine will not get oiled in most cases. This is where an oil pressure gauge is good. As the filter clogs the pressure reading will also drop. You won't see this if you change filters when you should unless something goes for a $h-t in the engine. If a filter with a bypass valve is used, even though it may plug up, the oil will take the easier route which is the bypass in the filter. There may be a slight pressure drop as well at the gauge, but oil is still going where it should, (unfiltered of course). This is because whatever pressure is needed to open the bypass will cause that much drop down stream.
A filter without an anti drainback valve will empty the contents when the engine is shut off. They are ment to be used in a vertical position where the oil can't drain out when sitting. Should have an anti drain back for horizontal applications , so the time it takes to build oil pressure is greatly reduced. I' m sure you may know all this, but it may help others when making selections.
Ron
A filter without an anti drainback valve will empty the contents when the engine is shut off. They are ment to be used in a vertical position where the oil can't drain out when sitting. Should have an anti drain back for horizontal applications , so the time it takes to build oil pressure is greatly reduced. I' m sure you may know all this, but it may help others when making selections.
Ron
Road Warrior
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,281
Likes: 8
From:
RE: 5 Micron New HD filter causing excess foam
So I am not going to take a chance w/the AMSOIL oil filters during break-in, I'll use something closer to 24 microns, maybe later I will use a 15, maybe.
Why would you want to "take a chance during breakin " or after for that matter with the amsoil filters?
Why not use the filter that was specked and manufactured to what is best for the engine unless you get them for free, even at that I wouldn't use it.
There's more differences between filter brands than you think.
http://www.tobycreek.org/oil_filters/index.shtml