The new ST Version
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2,809
Likes: 4,203
From: NC
Not gonna be a popular opinion, but I think the ST is a swing and a miss. I think they identified the right market, a proper street tourer with a rip-roaring engine, but for a number of reasons this particular version of the Pan America ST is not the bike I wish it was. Reason #1 is like mikefmoto said, chain final drive instead of belt or shaft. This bike's obvious competition is the BMW R1300RT/R1250RT, and some would argue the Gold Wing; those are big-mile bikes and none of those bikes us a chain because chain maintenance sucks; a shaft or a belt are maintenance free. Chains are pretty much required for an off-road bike like the original Pan America, but for a strictly on-road bike they really should have gone with a belt, just like every Harley Grand American Touring bike and Cruiser touring bikes and all the trikes have.
Second, it's pretty much the same bike as the existing Pan America. So what's the point? And what I mean by that is, look at the BMW GS vs the RT, the RT has totally different bodywork, different fairing, different bags, everything designed to make for a better more comfortable on-road-only long distance touring bike. The Pan Am doesn't. It's basically just a regular Pan Am with smaller wheels and street tires (which will make it a better sport bike) but improvement to wind protection (which would have made it better as a touring bike). In fact, the ST has a smaller/shorter windscreen than the regular PA. If I was choosing between them, as a tourer or sport tourer I'd buy the regular Pan America, even for just road touring, just because it's capable of things the ST isn't. If I was trying to buy a Bronx or sport bike, then the ST is the closest match to that that Harley has.
So good on them for recognizing the desire for a lighter weight street tourer, but I think this is just more of a parts-swap bike rather than what I really wish they would have produced, which would be a 475lb, 975cc, 28-inch seat, full fairing, belt-drive sport tourer. Something more like the Triumph Tiger 900 GT, but with wind protection more like the BMW RT. I'm picturing something more like their huge hit Low Rider ST, but a Rev Max based bike that's 225 pounds less weight while still having the same HP as the LRST. That's what I was hoping they would produce. I think it would be an out of the park home run for Harley as it'd probably be much more appealing to new riders/new to the brand, and I bet a whole lot of aging riders would be very very interested in a Harley touring bike that weighed 500 pounds instead of the >900 lbs of the Ultra. I may be nuts, but I think people would line up around the block for something like that. I think the existing Pan America ST might increase overall Pan Am sales by maybe 10%, but the 975ST (as I'll call it) would probably increase Pan Am sales by 1,000%.
EDIT: actually, maybe the Pan Am is the wrong bike to start from; maybe they should make what I'm talking about as a "Nightster ST"; just add a fairing and some bags like they did to the Low Rider (and swap the chain for a belt) and you're pretty much there. That'd be interesting. And if they made the fairing with some bodywork, they could cover up a lot of the left side of the engine that everyone complains about...
Second, it's pretty much the same bike as the existing Pan America. So what's the point? And what I mean by that is, look at the BMW GS vs the RT, the RT has totally different bodywork, different fairing, different bags, everything designed to make for a better more comfortable on-road-only long distance touring bike. The Pan Am doesn't. It's basically just a regular Pan Am with smaller wheels and street tires (which will make it a better sport bike) but improvement to wind protection (which would have made it better as a touring bike). In fact, the ST has a smaller/shorter windscreen than the regular PA. If I was choosing between them, as a tourer or sport tourer I'd buy the regular Pan America, even for just road touring, just because it's capable of things the ST isn't. If I was trying to buy a Bronx or sport bike, then the ST is the closest match to that that Harley has.
So good on them for recognizing the desire for a lighter weight street tourer, but I think this is just more of a parts-swap bike rather than what I really wish they would have produced, which would be a 475lb, 975cc, 28-inch seat, full fairing, belt-drive sport tourer. Something more like the Triumph Tiger 900 GT, but with wind protection more like the BMW RT. I'm picturing something more like their huge hit Low Rider ST, but a Rev Max based bike that's 225 pounds less weight while still having the same HP as the LRST. That's what I was hoping they would produce. I think it would be an out of the park home run for Harley as it'd probably be much more appealing to new riders/new to the brand, and I bet a whole lot of aging riders would be very very interested in a Harley touring bike that weighed 500 pounds instead of the >900 lbs of the Ultra. I may be nuts, but I think people would line up around the block for something like that. I think the existing Pan America ST might increase overall Pan Am sales by maybe 10%, but the 975ST (as I'll call it) would probably increase Pan Am sales by 1,000%.
EDIT: actually, maybe the Pan Am is the wrong bike to start from; maybe they should make what I'm talking about as a "Nightster ST"; just add a fairing and some bags like they did to the Low Rider (and swap the chain for a belt) and you're pretty much there. That'd be interesting. And if they made the fairing with some bodywork, they could cover up a lot of the left side of the engine that everyone complains about...
HDF Community Team
Joined: Nov 2022
Posts: 1,133
Likes: 786
From: France
https://www.hdforums.com/forum/sport...gearing+change
but it's to do the opposite, switch a Sportster S to a chain transmission, but apparently the parts match, so maybe we can do the opposite on the PA...
But I wonder if the suspension travel might not be a problem...
Otherwise today's chains are still durable over time...
Cruiser
Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 110
Likes: 121
From: Surprise, Arizona
this bike comes at the right time, I too came across this model by chance while looking at the Harley site from afar because I'm not too interested in the new products this year, I don't really like the new body style of the Tourings and I've been around Softails a bit. I tried the Pan America Special when it came out and I must say that the engine impressed me a lot but having a big ADV to go on the road didn't really appeal to me.
I think that the Moco really hit the nail on the head, the look is much better than the S and the qualities of this machine will work wonders on our French road network, much more narrow and tormented than yours, I live in the countryside near the mountains and the majority of my rides are on small roads with bends and I like to ride on this kind of route in addition to two or three slightly longer road trips per year and I think that it could be the ideal machine for me who is 65 years old now. The only thing that slows me down is the style. I've been riding Harleys for years and I like the custom style. I'm currently riding a Road King special and this Pan Am ST is still very modern. another thing is the sportiness of this model, I'm more of a calm and contemplative rider and I don't like speed, so maybe it wouldn't suit me. I like Harleys for their big bottom end torque and slow revving engines.
But I'll go try it.
I think that the Moco really hit the nail on the head, the look is much better than the S and the qualities of this machine will work wonders on our French road network, much more narrow and tormented than yours, I live in the countryside near the mountains and the majority of my rides are on small roads with bends and I like to ride on this kind of route in addition to two or three slightly longer road trips per year and I think that it could be the ideal machine for me who is 65 years old now. The only thing that slows me down is the style. I've been riding Harleys for years and I like the custom style. I'm currently riding a Road King special and this Pan Am ST is still very modern. another thing is the sportiness of this model, I'm more of a calm and contemplative rider and I don't like speed, so maybe it wouldn't suit me. I like Harleys for their big bottom end torque and slow revving engines.
But I'll go try it.
Last edited by WorkForIt; Jan 30, 2025 at 10:55 PM.
HDF Community Team
Joined: Nov 2022
Posts: 1,133
Likes: 786
From: France
Not gonna be a popular opinion, but I think the ST is a swing and a miss. I think they identified the right market, a proper street tourer with a rip-roaring engine, but for a number of reasons this particular version of the Pan America ST is not the bike I wish it was. Reason #1 is like mikefmoto said, chain final drive instead of belt or shaft. This bike's obvious competition is the BMW R1300RT/R1250RT, and some would argue the Gold Wing; those are big-mile bikes and none of those bikes ues a chain because chain maintenance sucks; a shaft or a belt are maintenance free. Chains are pretty much required for an off-road bike like the original Pan America, but for a strictly on-road bike they really should have gone with a belt, just like every Harley Grand American Touring bike and Cruiser touring bikes and all the trikes have.
Second, it's pretty much the same bike as the existing Pan America. So what's the point? And what I mean by that is, look at the BMW GS vs the RT, the RT has totally different bodywork, different fairing, different bags, everything designed to make for a better more comfortable on-road-only long distance touring bike. The Pan Am doesn't. It's basically just a regular Pan Am with smaller wheels and street tires (which will make it a better sport bike) but no improvement to wind protection (which would have made it better as a touring bike). In fact, the ST has a smaller/shorter windscreen than the regular PA. If I was choosing between them, as a tourer or sport tourer I'd buy the regular Pan America, even for just road touring, just because it's capable of things the ST isn't. If I was trying to buy a Bronx or sport bike, then the ST is the closest match to that that Harley has.
So good on them for recognizing the desire for a lighter weight street tourer, but I think this is just more of a parts-swap bike rather than what I really wish they would have produced, which would be a 475lb, 975cc, 28-inch seat, full fairing, belt-drive sport tourer. Something more like the Triumph Tiger 900 GT, but with wind protection more like the BMW RT. I'm picturing something more like their huge hit Low Rider ST, but a Rev Max based bike that's 225 pounds less weight while still having the same HP as the LRST. That's what I was hoping they would produce. I think it would be an out of the park home run for Harley as it'd probably be much more appealing to new riders/new to the brand, and I bet a whole lot of aging riders would be very very interested in a Harley touring bike that weighed 500 pounds instead of the >900 lbs of the Ultra. I may be nuts, but I think people would line up around the block for something like that. I think the existing Pan America ST might increase overall Pan Am sales by maybe 10%, but the 975ST (as I'll call it) would probably increase Pan Am sales by 1,000%.
EDIT: actually, maybe the Pan Am is the wrong bike to start from; maybe they should make what I'm talking about as a "Nightster ST"; just add a fairing and some bags like they did to the Low Rider (and a Sundowner) and you're pretty much there. It's even belt drive already, and they already offer a Sundowner and some detachable bags (a little small at about 20L each but they look good). That bike might be pretty interesting. And if they made the fairing with some bodywork, they could cover up a lot of the left side of the engine that everyone complains about... I wish it had the 110hp of the Bronx, but 91 is not a slouch. I wonder if Klockwerx would make a Nightster S bracket for the Wedge fairing?
Dang, I had no interest in the Nightster at all, and now I kinda got the itch to built a Nightster ST...
Second, it's pretty much the same bike as the existing Pan America. So what's the point? And what I mean by that is, look at the BMW GS vs the RT, the RT has totally different bodywork, different fairing, different bags, everything designed to make for a better more comfortable on-road-only long distance touring bike. The Pan Am doesn't. It's basically just a regular Pan Am with smaller wheels and street tires (which will make it a better sport bike) but no improvement to wind protection (which would have made it better as a touring bike). In fact, the ST has a smaller/shorter windscreen than the regular PA. If I was choosing between them, as a tourer or sport tourer I'd buy the regular Pan America, even for just road touring, just because it's capable of things the ST isn't. If I was trying to buy a Bronx or sport bike, then the ST is the closest match to that that Harley has.
So good on them for recognizing the desire for a lighter weight street tourer, but I think this is just more of a parts-swap bike rather than what I really wish they would have produced, which would be a 475lb, 975cc, 28-inch seat, full fairing, belt-drive sport tourer. Something more like the Triumph Tiger 900 GT, but with wind protection more like the BMW RT. I'm picturing something more like their huge hit Low Rider ST, but a Rev Max based bike that's 225 pounds less weight while still having the same HP as the LRST. That's what I was hoping they would produce. I think it would be an out of the park home run for Harley as it'd probably be much more appealing to new riders/new to the brand, and I bet a whole lot of aging riders would be very very interested in a Harley touring bike that weighed 500 pounds instead of the >900 lbs of the Ultra. I may be nuts, but I think people would line up around the block for something like that. I think the existing Pan America ST might increase overall Pan Am sales by maybe 10%, but the 975ST (as I'll call it) would probably increase Pan Am sales by 1,000%.
EDIT: actually, maybe the Pan Am is the wrong bike to start from; maybe they should make what I'm talking about as a "Nightster ST"; just add a fairing and some bags like they did to the Low Rider (and a Sundowner) and you're pretty much there. It's even belt drive already, and they already offer a Sundowner and some detachable bags (a little small at about 20L each but they look good). That bike might be pretty interesting. And if they made the fairing with some bodywork, they could cover up a lot of the left side of the engine that everyone complains about... I wish it had the 110hp of the Bronx, but 91 is not a slouch. I wonder if Klockwerx would make a Nightster S bracket for the Wedge fairing?
Dang, I had no interest in the Nightster at all, and now I kinda got the itch to built a Nightster ST...
But I like the fact that this ST has the same look as the S and that it has smaller wheels which allow for a lower bike and also the fact that it is lighter.
I think that chain transmissions have made enough progress to be quite durable over time and that this will not be a major problem.
I also think that this model will be capable of tackling gravel roads which will be sufficient for me who doesn't intend to go off-roading, just explore some inaccessible places with a big Touring, plus it's less expensive than the S. So it's a model that could interest me, I'm waiting to see it in real life and try it to see if I could adapt to this type of bike, I have always had "classic" Harleys, but at my age the weight is starting to be felt and I want to change. The modern side doesn't displease me. We'll see...
Tourer
Joined: Feb 2022
Posts: 345
Likes: 222
From: C IL
Question for those seriously considering buying a 2025 PanAm.
To the ones excited about the new PanAm ST and heavily considering purchasing, how much does H-D's decision to move all the Rovolution Max bikes productions overseas for 2025 production sway your decision to purchase?
Genuinely curious.
To the ones excited about the new PanAm ST and heavily considering purchasing, how much does H-D's decision to move all the Rovolution Max bikes productions overseas for 2025 production sway your decision to purchase?
Genuinely curious.
Cruiser
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 197
Likes: 192
From: Doylestown, Pa. USA
Not gonna be a popular opinion, but I think the ST is a swing and a miss. I think they identified the right market, a proper street tourer with a rip-roaring engine, but for a number of reasons this particular version of the Pan America ST is not the bike I wish it was. Reason #1 is like mikefmoto said, chain final drive instead of belt or shaft. This bike's obvious competition is the BMW R1300RT/R1250RT, and some would argue the Gold Wing; those are big-mile bikes and none of those bikes ues a chain because chain maintenance sucks; a shaft or a belt are maintenance free. Chains are pretty much required for an off-road bike like the original Pan America, but for a strictly on-road bike they really should have gone with a belt, just like every Harley Grand American Touring bike and Cruiser touring bikes and all the trikes have.
Second, it's pretty much the same bike as the existing Pan America. So what's the point? And what I mean by that is, look at the BMW GS vs the RT, the RT has totally different bodywork, different fairing, different bags, everything designed to make for a better more comfortable on-road-only long distance touring bike. The Pan Am doesn't. It's basically just a regular Pan Am with smaller wheels and street tires (which will make it a better sport bike) but no improvement to wind protection (which would have made it better as a touring bike). In fact, the ST has a smaller/shorter windscreen than the regular PA. If I was choosing between them, as a tourer or sport tourer I'd buy the regular Pan America, even for just road touring, just because it's capable of things the ST isn't. If I was trying to buy a Bronx or sport bike, then the ST is the closest match to that that Harley has.
So good on them for recognizing the desire for a lighter weight street tourer, but I think this is just more of a parts-swap bike rather than what I really wish they would have produced, which would be a 475lb, 975cc, 28-inch seat, full fairing, belt-drive sport tourer. Something more like the Triumph Tiger 900 GT, but with wind protection more like the BMW RT. I'm picturing something more like their huge hit Low Rider ST, but a Rev Max based bike that's 225 pounds less weight while still having the same HP as the LRST. That's what I was hoping they would produce. I think it would be an out of the park home run for Harley as it'd probably be much more appealing to new riders/new to the brand, and I bet a whole lot of aging riders would be very very interested in a Harley touring bike that weighed 500 pounds instead of the >900 lbs of the Ultra. I may be nuts, but I think people would line up around the block for something like that. I think the existing Pan America ST might increase overall Pan Am sales by maybe 10%, but the 975ST (as I'll call it) would probably increase Pan Am sales by 1,000%.
EDIT: actually, maybe the Pan Am is the wrong bike to start from; maybe they should make what I'm talking about as a "Nightster ST"; just add a fairing and some bags like they did to the Low Rider (and a Sundowner) and you're pretty much there. It's even belt drive already, and they already offer a Sundowner and some detachable bags (a little small at about 20L each but they look good). That bike might be pretty interesting. And if they made the fairing with some bodywork, they could cover up a lot of the left side of the engine that everyone complains about... I wish it had the 110hp of the Bronx, but 91 is not a slouch. I wonder if Klockwerx would make a Nightster S bracket for the Wedge fairing?
Dang, I had no interest in the Nightster at all, and now I kinda got the itch to built a Nightster ST...
Second, it's pretty much the same bike as the existing Pan America. So what's the point? And what I mean by that is, look at the BMW GS vs the RT, the RT has totally different bodywork, different fairing, different bags, everything designed to make for a better more comfortable on-road-only long distance touring bike. The Pan Am doesn't. It's basically just a regular Pan Am with smaller wheels and street tires (which will make it a better sport bike) but no improvement to wind protection (which would have made it better as a touring bike). In fact, the ST has a smaller/shorter windscreen than the regular PA. If I was choosing between them, as a tourer or sport tourer I'd buy the regular Pan America, even for just road touring, just because it's capable of things the ST isn't. If I was trying to buy a Bronx or sport bike, then the ST is the closest match to that that Harley has.
So good on them for recognizing the desire for a lighter weight street tourer, but I think this is just more of a parts-swap bike rather than what I really wish they would have produced, which would be a 475lb, 975cc, 28-inch seat, full fairing, belt-drive sport tourer. Something more like the Triumph Tiger 900 GT, but with wind protection more like the BMW RT. I'm picturing something more like their huge hit Low Rider ST, but a Rev Max based bike that's 225 pounds less weight while still having the same HP as the LRST. That's what I was hoping they would produce. I think it would be an out of the park home run for Harley as it'd probably be much more appealing to new riders/new to the brand, and I bet a whole lot of aging riders would be very very interested in a Harley touring bike that weighed 500 pounds instead of the >900 lbs of the Ultra. I may be nuts, but I think people would line up around the block for something like that. I think the existing Pan America ST might increase overall Pan Am sales by maybe 10%, but the 975ST (as I'll call it) would probably increase Pan Am sales by 1,000%.
EDIT: actually, maybe the Pan Am is the wrong bike to start from; maybe they should make what I'm talking about as a "Nightster ST"; just add a fairing and some bags like they did to the Low Rider (and a Sundowner) and you're pretty much there. It's even belt drive already, and they already offer a Sundowner and some detachable bags (a little small at about 20L each but they look good). That bike might be pretty interesting. And if they made the fairing with some bodywork, they could cover up a lot of the left side of the engine that everyone complains about... I wish it had the 110hp of the Bronx, but 91 is not a slouch. I wonder if Klockwerx would make a Nightster S bracket for the Wedge fairing?
Dang, I had no interest in the Nightster at all, and now I kinda got the itch to built a Nightster ST...
Also, one of the fastest growing categories is the lightweight mid range sport touring category. Think Yamaha Tracer 9GT+, huge success. If you get a chance to test ride one, it's impressive. It still requires valve checks and chain maintenance. Also, Guzzi V100 and Stelvio. If HD decided to target this market with a similar offering based on the Pan Am with a belt drive, no valve maintenance and better wind protection, which NONE of the competition in this category offers, holy crap, not only would they bring more serious sport touring riders into the HD brand, I think they would take a big bite out of this category.
To me, it's so obvious, but I just don't think the product managers have insight or experience in these other categories to know what they could have, which is a shame. I feel like they have tunnel vision and don't have a wide view of the entire riding industry. One can only dream and be disappointed.
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Road Captain
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 586
Likes: 126
From: Boston
Question for those seriously considering buying a 2025 PanAm.
To the ones excited about the new PanAm ST and heavily considering purchasing, how much does H-D's decision to move all the Rovolution Max bikes productions overseas for 2025 production sway your decision to purchase?
Genuinely curious.
To the ones excited about the new PanAm ST and heavily considering purchasing, how much does H-D's decision to move all the Rovolution Max bikes productions overseas for 2025 production sway your decision to purchase?
Genuinely curious.
6th Gear
Joined: Apr 2023
Posts: 11
Likes: 6
From: SW Mojave
I'm really excited to check out this machine. It's right in the same category as the Ducati Panigale. I'm really hoping this machine takes off as this is another bike that interests me in adding to my FLHTK. I really hope they do the 975 version as that would be nearly perfect as middle weight do all machine.