1975 FLH w/ 1975 Z-90 vin number
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Stage III
Joined: Jun 2007
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From: Missouri
1975 FLH w/ 1975 Z-90 vin number
My first rebuild is a '75 FLH I recently purchased. While learning the vin codes for shovels, I noticed that the first two matching vin numbers that are stamped on the right side of the neck of the frame and the top of the right case, though matching, the first two digits are 3D. According to HD Forum posts, 3D denotes a Z-90, not a FLH 1200.
Is this in anyway a legitimate situation? Did the factory ever put erroneous vin numbers on scoots around '75? Is the location of the righthand case stamp correct? I wasn't able to locate a stamp on the left/drive side case, where would this be located? The title, right side case, and frame match, so does it matter? Inspecting the stamps and the surrounding areas, they don't appear to be tampered with. I rec'd a signed bill of sale with the title, both signed by the seller. The individual that sold the bike was introduced to me by a friend since HS, and fellow Lodge brother, so though it is possible that deception was deliberate, it's not probable. Any useful feedback would be appreciated.
Is this in anyway a legitimate situation? Did the factory ever put erroneous vin numbers on scoots around '75? Is the location of the righthand case stamp correct? I wasn't able to locate a stamp on the left/drive side case, where would this be located? The title, right side case, and frame match, so does it matter? Inspecting the stamps and the surrounding areas, they don't appear to be tampered with. I rec'd a signed bill of sale with the title, both signed by the seller. The individual that sold the bike was introduced to me by a friend since HS, and fellow Lodge brother, so though it is possible that deception was deliberate, it's not probable. Any useful feedback would be appreciated.
Banned
Joined: Jul 2008
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From: Bgosh,WI
Can you post a pick of the stamping? Harley had their own special characters numbers and letters. If a number was faked by a previous owner, they generaly were just a standard number/letter stamp sets not H-D's..... billy g
Road Master
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,078
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From: NW Florida
Sounds like you got a number job. It's a scumbag thiefs trick to get a title for a stolen bike. They buy a Harley lightweight for the title and put those numbers on a Big twin or sportster. A 75 FLH numbers should look like 2A12345H5. The vin is located on the right side of the neck and the right motor case. Your friend may have been duped as well but I would still make him take it back. If you are stopped you could lose the bike and spend a lot of time and money proving you didn't steal it or alter the numbers. Harley numbers used special stamps, I'll attach the service bulletin to this post.
Club Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 802
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From: Wisconsin
What about the Federal VIN Tag on the right down tube of the frame that is not supposed to be removed.Is the Tag still on the bike and if so does it match.Should the Tag still be there that should solve the issue.Good Luck !!
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Stage III
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 3
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From: Missouri
Thanks for the replies...
Looks like a number job, according to the manual, thx FilthyLucre.
I guess I'm getting my first and most important lesson in shovels the hardway.
I'm working on getting it undone, though I'm disappointed that my "project" is all but and I feel sorry for the individual who went to his bike after a hard days work only to find it gone. I've had Evo's, and two Twin Cams and never have dealt with this so if I knew how I could get the bike back to the original owner (impossible), I would do it. Half of me says to take it to the MOHP, if I was sure that it wouldn't end up in some troopers garage in the end. The fellow that I bought it from says that it has been registered and licensed twice in the state without problem and that he didn't know about the wrong numbers, which is possible. Despite the stamping not matching that of HD's "font/style" it was done neatly on the the frame and right engine case as well. This sucks, I don't want to wrench on this scoot, it doesn't feel right, and no matter how you rationalize it, it will never feel like mine.
Looks like a number job, according to the manual, thx FilthyLucre.
I guess I'm getting my first and most important lesson in shovels the hardway.
I'm working on getting it undone, though I'm disappointed that my "project" is all but and I feel sorry for the individual who went to his bike after a hard days work only to find it gone. I've had Evo's, and two Twin Cams and never have dealt with this so if I knew how I could get the bike back to the original owner (impossible), I would do it. Half of me says to take it to the MOHP, if I was sure that it wouldn't end up in some troopers garage in the end. The fellow that I bought it from says that it has been registered and licensed twice in the state without problem and that he didn't know about the wrong numbers, which is possible. Despite the stamping not matching that of HD's "font/style" it was done neatly on the the frame and right engine case as well. This sucks, I don't want to wrench on this scoot, it doesn't feel right, and no matter how you rationalize it, it will never feel like mine.
Road Master
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,078
Likes: 39
From: NW Florida
The cops if they wanted to could find the original numbers. There are anti-theft numbers on the transmission and front end that the factory recorded with the VIN. IF the belly numbers hadn't been screwed with they could also be used to trace the vin. . Before 75 they were on the right and left outside in the following format. ie 172-1234, 1=FLH 72=year 1234=sequence number.
From 1975 on they were in the following format
Crankcase Identification Numbers
Numbers located on both left and right crankcase halves.
Big Twin: Left Case - Outside, Lower Front
Right Case - Inside, Gear case Compartment
XL Models: Left Case - Inside, Primary Compartment
Right Case - Outside, Near Oil Pump
Stamped at Capitol Drive Facility
Used to identify engine and track production changes
Example: 1588 321 007
15 = Engine Designation
1 = 1200cc Shovelhead
7 = 1000cc Iron XL
14 = 1340cc Shovelhead
15 = 1340cc Evolution
16 = XR-1000
17 = 883cc Evolution XL
18 = 1100cc Evolution XL
19 = 1200cc Evolution XL
20 = 1340cc Evolution, California (1988 - *)
21 = 883cc Evolution XL, California (1988 - *)
22 = 1200cc Evolution XL, California (1988 - *)
88 = Model Year
321 = Day of Production
001 = Jan. 1st 182 = Jul. 1st
032 = Feb. 1st 213 = Aug. 1st
060 = Mar. 1st 244 = Sep. 1st
091 = Apr. 1st 274 = Oct. 1st
121 = May 1st 305 = Nov. 1st
152 = Jun. 1st 335 = Dec. 1st
007 = Number That Day
From 1975 on they were in the following format
Crankcase Identification Numbers
Numbers located on both left and right crankcase halves.
Big Twin: Left Case - Outside, Lower Front
Right Case - Inside, Gear case Compartment
XL Models: Left Case - Inside, Primary Compartment
Right Case - Outside, Near Oil Pump
Stamped at Capitol Drive Facility
Used to identify engine and track production changes
Example: 1588 321 007
15 = Engine Designation
1 = 1200cc Shovelhead
7 = 1000cc Iron XL
14 = 1340cc Shovelhead
15 = 1340cc Evolution
16 = XR-1000
17 = 883cc Evolution XL
18 = 1100cc Evolution XL
19 = 1200cc Evolution XL
20 = 1340cc Evolution, California (1988 - *)
21 = 883cc Evolution XL, California (1988 - *)
22 = 1200cc Evolution XL, California (1988 - *)
88 = Model Year
321 = Day of Production
001 = Jan. 1st 182 = Jul. 1st
032 = Feb. 1st 213 = Aug. 1st
060 = Mar. 1st 244 = Sep. 1st
091 = Apr. 1st 274 = Oct. 1st
121 = May 1st 305 = Nov. 1st
152 = Jun. 1st 335 = Dec. 1st
007 = Number That Day
Last edited by FilthyLucre; Mar 20, 2010 at 12:24 AM.
Thread Starter
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Stage III
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 3
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From: Missouri
Thanks Filthy Lucre,
I already had the left case underbelly number and your info makes the numbers problem a fact. The transmission is an STD so the numbers from it won't help. The exterior numbers of both the left and right cases is the same so an interior number won't help either. I appreciate everyone's feedback on this. I'm probably going to have to involve the HP re. this. No matter what engine type you are dealing with, there's at least one lesson that's learned the hardway when you're doing it yourself. Lesson learned, when looking at a prospective bike, go in with the knowledge of the numbers and their locations, not who's selling it and their affiliations.
I already had the left case underbelly number and your info makes the numbers problem a fact. The transmission is an STD so the numbers from it won't help. The exterior numbers of both the left and right cases is the same so an interior number won't help either. I appreciate everyone's feedback on this. I'm probably going to have to involve the HP re. this. No matter what engine type you are dealing with, there's at least one lesson that's learned the hardway when you're doing it yourself. Lesson learned, when looking at a prospective bike, go in with the knowledge of the numbers and their locations, not who's selling it and their affiliations.
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