Hard Starting Shovel
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Hard Starting Shovel
Genny right side, alt left side, S&S 80" top end shovel. point ignition, CV carb
Resurrecting bike after three years of sitting. When put away, even with bad starter ring and when not slipping, engine spun easily when pushing start button. NOW, hard spinning, lights dim and sometimes "grinds" to stop. Go through this a few times and then, push button and " BAM " instantly running like it's been waiting three years to start. Once running,....sounds great.
New battery, plugs and wires. Cleaned all terminals and pulled primary cover. Checked starter ring and new belt.....all looks good. Pulled back belt and pulleys to be able to run starter without it engaging ring.....looks good.
Help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks!
Resurrecting bike after three years of sitting. When put away, even with bad starter ring and when not slipping, engine spun easily when pushing start button. NOW, hard spinning, lights dim and sometimes "grinds" to stop. Go through this a few times and then, push button and " BAM " instantly running like it's been waiting three years to start. Once running,....sounds great.
New battery, plugs and wires. Cleaned all terminals and pulled primary cover. Checked starter ring and new belt.....all looks good. Pulled back belt and pulleys to be able to run starter without it engaging ring.....looks good.
Help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks!
Last edited by shovelrider69; Aug 21, 2010 at 11:56 AM. Reason: added info
Road Warrior
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,854
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From: Eagle River WI
No belt equals no load Do you know if this is an HD inner prim Look for casting numbers I have a BDL system on one of my customs that has an inner prim from Cal Products ( these were free no charge do to my shop doing a test electric start on a rigid frame ) This system would work OK some of the times and then the lock up hard starting would begin I'm on my 3rd ring gear My other custom has a stock HD inner prim same BDL system and it starts every time Both motors are S&S 96 ers
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" Lifeline " sounds very familiar for some reason. It's been a few years since I originally put this bike together but I'm thinking the inner is a " Lifeline " product, I'll have to look closer tonight after I get home from work. Although, I never had this problem until now and I haven't touched the inner primary......yet. Could something have happened over the time it was sitting. Warped? Swelled?
A couple things I thought of last night were........I'm suspicious that the oil pump may be stuck and I'll have to pull the ball and clean it up and make sure the spring is good. I haven't really run it long enough to heat things up too much but enough to change the temp of the oil in the tank which I haven't seen yet. Bike always use to puke oil after the first start up of new seasons or after long sits and hasn't done it this time. No foam or changes in oil tank either. Maybe, the engine has to pick up oil sitting in the bottom of cases to get things moving enough to start? Plus, I have timing inspection plug in...although I always leave this in, maybe it's binding the flywheel even if it's never done this before. Have to fix this oil issue first and hope it's as simple as cleaning the check ball and seat.
I'll keep you posted nad if you got any more ideas, please, shoot them my way.
Thanks!
A couple things I thought of last night were........I'm suspicious that the oil pump may be stuck and I'll have to pull the ball and clean it up and make sure the spring is good. I haven't really run it long enough to heat things up too much but enough to change the temp of the oil in the tank which I haven't seen yet. Bike always use to puke oil after the first start up of new seasons or after long sits and hasn't done it this time. No foam or changes in oil tank either. Maybe, the engine has to pick up oil sitting in the bottom of cases to get things moving enough to start? Plus, I have timing inspection plug in...although I always leave this in, maybe it's binding the flywheel even if it's never done this before. Have to fix this oil issue first and hope it's as simple as cleaning the check ball and seat.
I'll keep you posted nad if you got any more ideas, please, shoot them my way.
Thanks!
Club Member
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 66,110
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From: Niles Canyon Ca.
If it's lifeline it's junk bolt holes too big , bad alignment on the starter bushing hole on outer Pri. covers , both inner and outer Pri. covers where real popular yrs back because they were cheap chrome . I've had to pull the 1/8" alignment pins on the inner primary before leave the bolts a bit loose and whack the primary cover around with a rubber hammer to get them to kinda work .
Is the 1/8" alignment pin still on the inner cover gasket surface on the right side ? It's needed .
Here's a quicky test put it all together but leave cover bolts hand tight and hit the button watch how much the cover jumps around and how the starter sounds , shrieks like a banshee it's not aligned bump it around see if it acts right .
Toss anything lifeline or sell it cheap to somebody you don't like .
As for the oil thing if you can fire the bike , at an idle crack loose either the tappet screen plug on the case or a rocker shaft end plugs a bit , if you get oil pumps doing fine .
Is the 1/8" alignment pin still on the inner cover gasket surface on the right side ? It's needed .
Here's a quicky test put it all together but leave cover bolts hand tight and hit the button watch how much the cover jumps around and how the starter sounds , shrieks like a banshee it's not aligned bump it around see if it acts right .
Toss anything lifeline or sell it cheap to somebody you don't like .
As for the oil thing if you can fire the bike , at an idle crack loose either the tappet screen plug on the case or a rocker shaft end plugs a bit , if you get oil pumps doing fine .
Last edited by TwiZted Biker; Aug 22, 2010 at 02:58 AM.
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You guys are Aces. The outer is a " Lifeline " and the inner,.......I'm not sure. Has a trademark that looks like a capital C with a line through it that makes it almost look like an e with what looks like an upside down and backwards L next to it...all of this in a circle with a part number stamped above it. Any idea what that is? Even if it's ****, still like to know what I have on the bike. When I went to enclosed primary and electric start, the Harley Salvage yard guy just threw the parts at me from what he had laying around. Only charged me a hundred or so, so I was happy at the time.
I put everything back together, hand tightened the cover only, and it did what it was doing before. One smack of the outer primary, with my hand and now spins like a top. Amazing that that is all it wanted but I like it. :-) I tightend everything, crisscross fashion, just a turn at a time until nice and tight. Still spinning good. I'm so excited over it not being some of the things I was dreading it could be, I had to come right in and type this to say thanks. THANKS! Other good news is, I was kicking it, just to make sure it wasn't binding elsewhere and I never got to kick it enough to find out because it started either first kick or second every time. I'm happy with that too. :-)
So, while it's working, good enough is good enough but I'll be keeping an eye out for deals on actual Harley primary covers. Now out to play with the oil situation and mabe polish some chrome and tomorrow, on to the brakes. I'm sure you'll be hearing from me. :-)
Do Gremlins pop up in your garage if you don't pay attention to your bike for awhile?
Again..............THANKS!
I put everything back together, hand tightened the cover only, and it did what it was doing before. One smack of the outer primary, with my hand and now spins like a top. Amazing that that is all it wanted but I like it. :-) I tightend everything, crisscross fashion, just a turn at a time until nice and tight. Still spinning good. I'm so excited over it not being some of the things I was dreading it could be, I had to come right in and type this to say thanks. THANKS! Other good news is, I was kicking it, just to make sure it wasn't binding elsewhere and I never got to kick it enough to find out because it started either first kick or second every time. I'm happy with that too. :-)
So, while it's working, good enough is good enough but I'll be keeping an eye out for deals on actual Harley primary covers. Now out to play with the oil situation and mabe polish some chrome and tomorrow, on to the brakes. I'm sure you'll be hearing from me. :-)
Do Gremlins pop up in your garage if you don't pay attention to your bike for awhile?
Again..............THANKS!
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I don't think the inner is the problem, pretty sure it's the " Lifeline " but if I can find a Harley cheap inner, I'll grab it.
Not sure if you guys know about http://nickscustomcycles.com/. Acres of salvaged Harley parts and aftermarket for everything made by Harley. Guys a square deal guy. Seven, eight years ago when I was putting the bike together, Nick would trade you old parts you were done with for what you needed. Many times went home without using cash. He just likes to see you keep the bike running. If your short of cash, he'll sell you old, beat and cheap but functional,...if you got the money, he'll sell you high end. I'd go in with problems and they'd get me the part, show me to one of the shops and have the mech show me how to fix it. Often did, right then and their using their tools. Usually tip the mech a 5 or 10 for letting me use his ****. Once they get to know you, they usually just have you go find the part yourself, I often got lost and came back after finding much more than I thought I needed. :-)
Take a look at his internet site but don't let any commercialism on it turn you off. Nick is old school, anti information tech age but reluctantly letting his daughter bring him into the current century. He uses old school buses and chicken shacks to store parts. :-) Reluctantly accepts credit cards because he doesn't like using the technology or paying the fees plus he likes cash. He's been around about 40 years but only in the last couple has his daughter been trying to make it more a business then a hang out for Harley motor heads. I just wish he was closer now, 200 miles round trip for me too Williamstown, NJ is too much too travel with EBay available now but I happily made the trip many times years ago and found Nick to be a great guy and considered him a friend by the time I got the bike together. Taught me a lot just by hanging at the shop.
Not sure if you guys know about http://nickscustomcycles.com/. Acres of salvaged Harley parts and aftermarket for everything made by Harley. Guys a square deal guy. Seven, eight years ago when I was putting the bike together, Nick would trade you old parts you were done with for what you needed. Many times went home without using cash. He just likes to see you keep the bike running. If your short of cash, he'll sell you old, beat and cheap but functional,...if you got the money, he'll sell you high end. I'd go in with problems and they'd get me the part, show me to one of the shops and have the mech show me how to fix it. Often did, right then and their using their tools. Usually tip the mech a 5 or 10 for letting me use his ****. Once they get to know you, they usually just have you go find the part yourself, I often got lost and came back after finding much more than I thought I needed. :-)
Take a look at his internet site but don't let any commercialism on it turn you off. Nick is old school, anti information tech age but reluctantly letting his daughter bring him into the current century. He uses old school buses and chicken shacks to store parts. :-) Reluctantly accepts credit cards because he doesn't like using the technology or paying the fees plus he likes cash. He's been around about 40 years but only in the last couple has his daughter been trying to make it more a business then a hang out for Harley motor heads. I just wish he was closer now, 200 miles round trip for me too Williamstown, NJ is too much too travel with EBay available now but I happily made the trip many times years ago and found Nick to be a great guy and considered him a friend by the time I got the bike together. Taught me a lot just by hanging at the shop.