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I can't tell you what to do, only because you have to decide really (not to be coy about it)..I'll tell you what I would do, and I wouldn't trust that map for ****. So if it were my bike, I would go reset the map back to stock and re-apply the AFR mods until I figured out a more long term solution. Doesn't mean I'm right and they're not.. but I would have enough that I just wouldn't trust it.
Again, something you may want to consider looking at is the wide band auto tune kit, which I mentioned in another post.
To answer your question about what changing the VE does, I'm going to quote from a page here, as he does it better:
"You may hear some tuners talk about volumetric efficiency (VE). They may even claim to tune by VE, saying its somehow superior to the old AFR tuning. Turns out, you dont have to know anything about VE to properly tune a bike. VE is not nearly as complicated as it may seem. VE is the actual airflow through an engine expressed as a percentage (efficiency) of the flow computed from the engines displacement (volume). By displacement, we are referring to its size, like 95". Sometimes the word metric is added to make it sound more impressive, I guess. In actual H-D engines, VE can vary from nearly 50 percent to over 100 percent, depending on rpm, cam profiles, and exhaust system efficiency. Using one of the ECM programmers brings up the VE tables. Adjusting their percentages doesnt change the actual airflow through the engine or its VE, but it does cause the ECM to add or remove fuel. Its similar to changing the engine displacement or injector size numbers to fool the ECM into changing fuel delivery when the overall maps are too rich or lean. So, whether done indirectly with VE tables or directly by percentage of fuel as with a Power Commander, the result is the same: the tuner gets to dial in the air/fuel ratios he wants. A side benefit of VE tuning is the resulting table gives a good indication of how the exhaust system is working with the cams. Good tuners can use that info to their advantage and tune the pipes for more low and midrange torque, but that requires retuning VE again. And, in my opinion, really good tuners dont need VE tables to properly tune exhaust systems."
Yeah, just not having a good feeling about the whole thing. Back to stock tune with modified AFR's and autotune until I find a real tuner I guess.
Yeah, once I hear back from Dynojet as to the outcome of the refund I'm going to have a talk with them. I won't get a refund, but I may try for a redo. TBH, it only takes me to be screwed once to never patronize a shop again and I'm feeling pretty screwed right now. So I may just eat the loss and look elsewhere.
I hate this ****.
Call Rosa's and ask if you can speak with Andrew. He is probably very busy in the shop but maybe he can shed some light. If you are going to look elsewhere Rosa's is the shop.
this stuff would happen all the time, its a shame that its just $,
there would be guys who ride off, twist the throttle a bit more than usual, use a lower gear, keeps rpms up and think wow this is tuned up well, get a dyno tune
people can now evaluate the tune file to see if anything has actually changed, if your timing is also the same as stock file I think you have strong case for refund, or retune here,
So Izzy, would you say I should apply the AFR mods you suggested the other day to the now stock AFR table they put on it, leaving the new VE tables?
Also, what's the difference between MAP VE and TPS MAP tables? They only changed TPS MAPs btw. Thanks.
2016 yours will be Throttle by Wire, does that not mean the EFI is running a MAP VE tune?? If they only changed the TPS tables then they did diddly???
Did you take a copy of the current tune when they were finished ...that would show what they did? An good autotune would change more than you showed on those screenshots??
I wouldn't be going there again but I wouldn't leave them the $600 either
2016 yours will be Throttle by Wire, does that not mean the EFI is running a MAP VE tune?? If they only changed the TPS tables then they did diddly???
Did you take a copy of the current tune when they were finished ...that would show what they did? An good autotune would change more than you showed on those screenshots??
I wouldn't be going there again but I wouldn't leave them the $600 either
When I dropped it off, my PV had two tunes in it. A copy of original(stock) and the stock with modded afr table that it was running when I dropped it off.
When I picked it up, there were three more tunes on it.
1) a second copy of original
2) a second copy of the original w/modded afrs
3) an auto tune
The auto tune is what I figured they created, and is the one where the only change (from stock) was to the two TPS VE tables
Unfortunately I don't know enough about it to know if my TBW bike uses the TPS or MAP VE's. I thought it used the TPS, since my last cable throttle bike used the MAP.
So which is it? Does a 2016 throttle by wire bike use the MAP or the TPS VE tables?
Unfortunately I don't know enough about it to know if my TBW bike uses the TPS or MAP VE's. I thought it used the TPS, since my last cable throttle bike used the MAP.
So which is it? Does a 2016 throttle by wire bike use the MAP or the TPS VE tables?
This gets better and better...
I'm just thinking aloud here mind, I don't have a 110 or a 2016 but when I looked at one of the Dynojet 2016 maps there were both TPS and MAP tables, and a switch setting called VE Table Selection, which was set to VE MAP
Have a look at your copy of Original to see what was in your bike, and if both MAP and TPS tables, have a look at what the setting is, and you will know what you are dealing with. My understanding is that if you are running MAP VE then changing the TPS table won't make a difference ...but presumably Autotune knows which one it should be tuning so maybe yours is TPS ???
When I dropped it off, my PV had two tunes in it. A copy of original(stock) and the stock with modded afr table that it was running when I dropped it off.
When I picked it up, there were three more tunes on it.
1) a second copy of original
2) a second copy of the original w/modded afrs
3) an auto tune
The auto tune is what I figured they created, and is the one where the only change (from stock) was to the two TPS VE tables
Unfortunately I don't know enough about it to know if my TBW bike uses the TPS or MAP VE's. I thought it used the TPS, since my last cable throttle bike used the MAP.
So which is it? Does a 2016 throttle by wire bike use the MAP or the TPS VE tables?
This gets better and better...
The second "copy of current tune" that is on it will be whatever tune was in the bike when they applied the second tune license.
I hate to hear about your experience, it gives all dyno tuners a bad rep when stuff like this happens. I'm sending yo u a PM
I'm just thinking aloud here mind, I don't have a 110 or a 2016 but when I looked at one of the Dynojet 2016 maps there were both TPS and MAP tables, and a switch setting called VE Table Selection, which was set to VE MAP
Have a look at your copy of Original to see what was in your bike, and if both MAP and TPS tables, have a look at what the setting is, and you will know what you are dealing with. My understanding is that if you are running MAP VE then changing the TPS table won't make a difference ...but presumably Autotune knows which one it should be tuning so maybe yours is TPS ???
Good Catch. Looking at the original (OEM) tune and the new auto the shop created they both are set to "0" - use the TPS VE. So there's that at least. Now I can see that they at least ran an autotune for $425 that changed the TPS VE table and nothing else.
I am going to wait for DynoJet to let me know what they will do about refunding one of the licenses, and then confront the shop. I'm sure I won't get more then an offer to re-tune it, which tbh I don't think I'd accept. No trust in the place anymore.
I suspect the problem they had with the tach sensor caused the problem and rather then being stand up and saying "we couldn't do it" - they ran an autotune the same as I could, except on the dyno, and charged me the full $425 for it.
So to get myself in a place where I'm not afraid I'm going to roast my motor, I am loading the stock tune into WinPV, changing the AFR table to what Izzy suggested previously and going to go do 4 30min auto tunes this morning. Once that's done I can at least feel comfortable riding...
You guys are really helpful and I appreciate the effort getting me through this nonsense.
And a special thanks to Wide Open Cycles for his kind offer.
An update. I sent the shop an email last night when I came to the realization of what they did or didn't do. Told them that the bike wasn't tuned properly and wasn't running like it should, probably due to the tach issue they said they had.
I got a note this morning which said they were working with Dynojet to get some updates and get it working reliably with the 2016's and once it was ready they planned on having me back in for a re-tune.
So that's where it is. Still not happy with the original story, but at least now it looks like they will make it right.
If I get my duplicate dynojet license refunded (still waiting on dynojet to get back to me) and a halfway decent tune out of them it will be a somewhat acceptable outcome.
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