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Old Nov 16, 2015 | 09:08 AM
  #21  
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From: Honah Lee
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Do you have the electrical diagnostic manual? You are using a meter and not a gage on bike I assume. Stator is very simple to check. In fact, after replacing battey, that would be second to check since regulator is not really check-able except 2000 rpm out put check and a bad stator is going to destroy a new regulator.
Have you checked for any AC coming to battery.



Rev. 111015
Some electrical 101 and a little more..

Remember, the best made brand new battery that has been on a maintenance charger for 3 days that has a loose or bad connection is no better then a boat anchor with a loose rope. The connection can get loose after one ride if the battery is not anchored and the wires are short and get tugged in a direction that can unscrew the bolts.

After a good 24+ hour maintenance low amperage charge, with the charge light in the solid green and the battery has set about 24 hours off charge, voltage should be about 12.8 volts.
12.8 = full charged
12.6 = 75% charged
12.3 = 50% charged (Lot of new modern cars with system protection will not even click at this point but will have good headlight beams showing)
12.0 =25% charged

Always check both the terminals at the battery lead and also at the terminal on the wire. That helps to verify connection. With a DC volt meter (one that has a feature to lock high and low reading is best) hooked across the battery terminals and reading 12.8 or so, crank motor and while its cranking it should not drop below about 9.6 volts and as soon as it starts and throttled up to 2000 rpm, voltage should read around 14.8 volts. The 2000 rpm is the bench mark standard. Ignore idle output. Ignore output above 2000rpm unless it exceeds 14.9 volts. That is a sure indication that regulator is bad.

The crank check shows a rough check of the reserve amperage capacity of the battery while cranking with a 150-200 amp load on it. The 14.8 shows a good alternator and if you leave it on a while as the regulatory will drop the voltage a little showing itself working. However, with the lights and stuff always on, it will never drop back much. If you have a lot of options, most modern bikes will not show 14.8 charging volts at idle but stock newer bikes will be close. Older bikes with lower amperage output not so much. However, 2000 rpm is the bench mark for the standard 14.8 volts.

If you think battery is good and something is draining it sitting, now would be a good time to check for drain problems. Go to Harbor Freight and get you a AC/DC meter for under $25 or so. http://www.harborfreight.com/ac-dc-d...ter-37772.html Make sure it has DC amps draw, DC voltage, resistance and AC voltage. Key off. Remove the negative cable off the battery. Set meter on DC amps. Hook the meter lead to cable and the other to battery. How many milliamps (mA) is it drawing? It should be no more then 6 mA which is the ECM (1), speedometer (1), tac,TSSM (1),HFSM (1) and voltage regulator (1)

When a battery wears out, a good charge will show fairly good voltage, but the battery can still have very low amperage capacity which will show in the crude crank test above, but it really should be checked after a good charge by removing it from bike and getting a free check at a place like AutoZone that has a fancy load meter check that gives you a print out of the battery health. Battery MUST BE CHARGED to check it. Be sure they set their meter to correct cold cranking amperage stated on the battery. Never charge the AGM absorbed glass mat battery with a regular car battery charger unless it is a newer one that says safe with this type of battery. Also, by taking battery out you now know you have good connections. Vibration tends to loosen the connections or a little corrosion will prevent charging or cause starting problems. Be forwarned, these checks quite often are incorrect due to the low amperage of these small batteries and junk checking equipment. If bike is charging , no load on battery when key is off and you are still having problems…REPLACE THE BATTERY. If battery is more then 3-4 years old.. REPLACE THE BATTERY.

Using the maintenance charger can get more years from a battery but be careful here. You do not want the last start 5 miles from home. If it still grunts when you first hit starter or kicks back with a bang, replace it. After a few years, charge and pull battery and have it checked for cold cranking amperage ever spring. Even then, if it grunts most ever start, I would replace it. Most battery checkers at AutoZone and places like that do not do really well on the low amperage setting on small batteries. Not sure why but they tend to say they are OK when they are weak. If they have one that fits your bike, Wal-Mart's AGM absorbed glass mat battery is just as good as any for one third to half the money of a Harley Battery. Do not put an old fashion one with vent tubes on a modern TC Harley. Do not jump, push start or run bike with a half dead battery except in a real emergency. If a bike battery is down and you jump it, throwing all that amps to it from a big car battery especially one that is running can wreck a bike regulator or charging system. Charging a worn out battery can kill alternator stator or the voltage regulator or both. Probably ending in a big dollar repair in parts alone.

It is also a good idea to always check your battery at 2000 RPM with your meter set to AC. If by chance, the regulator goes bad, sometimes it will let AC come thru. That is a sure sign of a bad regulator. The older stators with two wires are a two phase AC system. Lot of people call it a single phase but it is two phase. The AC voltage you see appears single since you check it AC across the two wires since there is no earth ground. If you were to check one wire to an earth ground, it would show one half the voltage that you would see when you check the two wires together on the bike. Same with the other. Together they double and are two phase. The newer three-wire system is a 3-phase AC system for the higher amperage output.

Also remember, when starting a Harley, hit the starter and hold it in till it is firing on both cylinders and running before letting up. If you let up before it’s running, quiet often, it actually take an FI motor longer to start. There is a fraction of a second more for a long stroke Harley then a multi-cylinder car for it to get going. If you do not do this, it will kick back with a bang, sneeze thru the intake or crank a lot longer the second time or shame on you the third time. Also, if you have a habit of doing this, the starter solenoid switch contact will only have half the life it could. You cannot hurt the starter. The starter gear has a sprag clutch. There are drive pins in it that as the gas motor catches and run, it outruns the starter motor drive and disengages it from the electric motor. If you hold it in a little too long and listen carefully, you will hear the sprag clutch run up the ramps and slip. Makes a sizzle hum. This will show you your starter sprag clutch is OK.
 
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Old Nov 16, 2015 | 03:40 PM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by RIPSAW
Do you have the electrical diagnostic manual? You are using a meter and not a gage on bike I assume. Stator is very simple to check. In fact, after replacing battey, that would be second to check since regulator is not really check-able except 2000 rpm out put check and a bad stator is going to destroy a new regulator.
Have you checked for any AC coming to battery.



Rev. 111015
Some electrical 101 and a little more..

Remember, the best made brand new battery that has been on a maintenance charger for 3 days that has a loose or bad connection is no better then a boat anchor with a loose rope. The connection can get loose after one ride if the battery is not anchored and the wires are short and get tugged in a direction that can unscrew the bolts.

After a good 24+ hour maintenance low amperage charge, with the charge light in the solid green and the battery has set about 24 hours off charge, voltage should be about 12.8 volts.
12.8 = full charged
12.6 = 75% charged
12.3 = 50% charged (Lot of new modern cars with system protection will not even click at this point but will have good headlight beams showing)
12.0 =25% charged

Always check both the terminals at the battery lead and also at the terminal on the wire. That helps to verify connection. With a DC volt meter (one that has a feature to lock high and low reading is best) hooked across the battery terminals and reading 12.8 or so, crank motor and while its cranking it should not drop below about 9.6 volts and as soon as it starts and throttled up to 2000 rpm, voltage should read around 14.8 volts. The 2000 rpm is the bench mark standard. Ignore idle output. Ignore output above 2000rpm unless it exceeds 14.9 volts. That is a sure indication that regulator is bad.

The crank check shows a rough check of the reserve amperage capacity of the battery while cranking with a 150-200 amp load on it. The 14.8 shows a good alternator and if you leave it on a while as the regulatory will drop the voltage a little showing itself working. However, with the lights and stuff always on, it will never drop back much. If you have a lot of options, most modern bikes will not show 14.8 charging volts at idle but stock newer bikes will be close. Older bikes with lower amperage output not so much. However, 2000 rpm is the bench mark for the standard 14.8 volts.

If you think battery is good and something is draining it sitting, now would be a good time to check for drain problems. Go to Harbor Freight and get you a AC/DC meter for under $25 or so. http://www.harborfreight.com/ac-dc-d...ter-37772.html Make sure it has DC amps draw, DC voltage, resistance and AC voltage. Key off. Remove the negative cable off the battery. Set meter on DC amps. Hook the meter lead to cable and the other to battery. How many milliamps (mA) is it drawing? It should be no more then 6 mA which is the ECM (1), speedometer (1), tac,TSSM (1),HFSM (1) and voltage regulator (1)

When a battery wears out, a good charge will show fairly good voltage, but the battery can still have very low amperage capacity which will show in the crude crank test above, but it really should be checked after a good charge by removing it from bike and getting a free check at a place like AutoZone that has a fancy load meter check that gives you a print out of the battery health. Battery MUST BE CHARGED to check it. Be sure they set their meter to correct cold cranking amperage stated on the battery. Never charge the AGM absorbed glass mat battery with a regular car battery charger unless it is a newer one that says safe with this type of battery. Also, by taking battery out you now know you have good connections. Vibration tends to loosen the connections or a little corrosion will prevent charging or cause starting problems. Be forwarned, these checks quite often are incorrect due to the low amperage of these small batteries and junk checking equipment. If bike is charging , no load on battery when key is off and you are still having problems…REPLACE THE BATTERY. If battery is more then 3-4 years old.. REPLACE THE BATTERY.

Using the maintenance charger can get more years from a battery but be careful here. You do not want the last start 5 miles from home. If it still grunts when you first hit starter or kicks back with a bang, replace it. After a few years, charge and pull battery and have it checked for cold cranking amperage ever spring. Even then, if it grunts most ever start, I would replace it. Most battery checkers at AutoZone and places like that do not do really well on the low amperage setting on small batteries. Not sure why but they tend to say they are OK when they are weak. If they have one that fits your bike, Wal-Mart's AGM absorbed glass mat battery is just as good as any for one third to half the money of a Harley Battery. Do not put an old fashion one with vent tubes on a modern TC Harley. Do not jump, push start or run bike with a half dead battery except in a real emergency. If a bike battery is down and you jump it, throwing all that amps to it from a big car battery especially one that is running can wreck a bike regulator or charging system. Charging a worn out battery can kill alternator stator or the voltage regulator or both. Probably ending in a big dollar repair in parts alone.

It is also a good idea to always check your battery at 2000 RPM with your meter set to AC. If by chance, the regulator goes bad, sometimes it will let AC come thru. That is a sure sign of a bad regulator. The older stators with two wires are a two phase AC system. Lot of people call it a single phase but it is two phase. The AC voltage you see appears single since you check it AC across the two wires since there is no earth ground. If you were to check one wire to an earth ground, it would show one half the voltage that you would see when you check the two wires together on the bike. Same with the other. Together they double and are two phase. The newer three-wire system is a 3-phase AC system for the higher amperage output.

Also remember, when starting a Harley, hit the starter and hold it in till it is firing on both cylinders and running before letting up. If you let up before it’s running, quiet often, it actually take an FI motor longer to start. There is a fraction of a second more for a long stroke Harley then a multi-cylinder car for it to get going. If you do not do this, it will kick back with a bang, sneeze thru the intake or crank a lot longer the second time or shame on you the third time. Also, if you have a habit of doing this, the starter solenoid switch contact will only have half the life it could. You cannot hurt the starter. The starter gear has a sprag clutch. There are drive pins in it that as the gas motor catches and run, it outruns the starter motor drive and disengages it from the electric motor. If you hold it in a little too long and listen carefully, you will hear the sprag clutch run up the ramps and slip. Makes a sizzle hum. This will show you your starter sprag clutch is OK.
+1...Rip nails electrical probs with very good input everytime. I will add, youtube has a considerable amount of videos how to troubleshoot the Harley charging system.
 
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Old Nov 16, 2015 | 04:16 PM
  #23  
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Just ran the first test checking continuity, socket to socket and from the stator sockets to ground.
All 3 socket to socket test showed continuity. Is this correct?
However, the stator socket to frame also show continuity.
Should there be continuity from the stator to the frame? I'm thinking no, please verify.
If I'm correct looks like I have at least 1 short.
 

Last edited by TSheff; Nov 16, 2015 at 05:16 PM.
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Old Nov 16, 2015 | 05:30 PM
  #24  
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From: Honah Lee
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Are you checking it with a resistance meter similar to what I show in my post above?
 
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Old Nov 16, 2015 | 05:32 PM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by RIPSAW
Are you checking it with a resistance meter similar to what I show in my post above?
Using my fluke.
 
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Old Nov 16, 2015 | 05:40 PM
  #26  
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From: Honah Lee
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5. Test for resistance with ohmmeter set on the ohms scale.
a. Resistance across all the stator sockets should be
0.1-0.2 ohms.
b. If the resistance is higher, the stator is damaged and
must be replaced.
c. If resistance is lower, this could indicate an internal
short between the windings.

None of the three connectors in the plug off the stator should show anything to ground.

With bike running, there should be 32-46 volts AC at 2000 rpm checking two together (do three checks to complete)
 
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Old Nov 16, 2015 | 05:47 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by RIPSAW
5. Test for resistance with ohmmeter set on the ohms scale.
a. Resistance across all the stator sockets should be
0.1-0.2 ohms.
b. If the resistance is higher, the stator is damaged and
must be replaced.
c. If resistance is lower, this could indicate an internal
short between the windings.

None of the three connectors in the plug off the stator should show anything to ground.

With bike running, there should be 32-46 volts AC at 2000 rpm checking two together (do three checks to complete)
Thanks - I'll check the readings - All show continuity to frame ground.
I'll try to get back to it as soon as I can, things are a little busy right now. Thanks again.

BTW - I'm jumping ahead - if stator proves to be bad, what is your opinion on stator only or stator & rotor change?
 
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Old Nov 16, 2015 | 06:02 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by TSheff
Thanks - I'll check the readings - All show continuity to frame ground.
I'll try to get back to it as soon as I can, things are a little busy right now. Thanks again.

BTW - I'm jumping ahead - if stator proves to be bad, what is your opinion on stator only or stator & rotor change?
That would be a problem - with the winding resistance so low, it will appear that all are down to ground.
 
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Old Nov 16, 2015 | 06:24 PM
  #29  
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Had to quit before AC check complete BTW I don't have a tach at idle I was seeing 24v about where i think 2000 is I was seeing 40+ of course it went higher with Rpms, but I wasn't able to check all three just 1-2. Will do 1-3 & 2-3 tomorrow.
.3 & .4 OHMS between sockets.
11ma on load - Could that extra 5-6ma is back through the stator/short?
 
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Old Nov 16, 2015 | 07:02 PM
  #30  
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My 04 check says .1-.3 is OK. I gave you specs on an 08. We need someone to check an 07 manual for you. Your reading may be OK. Be sure to not check to ground on the wrong setting. However, if they go to ground, it is surely bad I think. The rotor is permanent magnet. Make sure the magnets are glued on and that the drive serration is in good shape with no slop. You are going to need a primary locking tool and 3/4 impact to break compensator nut. Clean up well and use permanent loctite on compensator nut and torque to proper spec. It's a big job is you do not know what you are doing or do not have proper tools. The clutch hub has to come off to get chain off and it has left hand threads. You absolutely need a service manual and electrical diagnostic manual.

I do not understand your 11ma on load or what you are doing or talking about. Plug needs to be pulled from regulator to check stator and should not have battery voltage going back thru it to get a load.
 

Last edited by Jackie Paper; Nov 16, 2015 at 07:09 PM.
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