Freedom Exhaust and FP3
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 3,185
Likes: 189
From: 90210
That's why I suggested to view what changes it made before applying them. The tune Auto-Tune creates can be saved in the Tune Manager without flashing that tune. Then can be opened up and compared in WinPV. While the dyno is great for populating the entire map and dialing in the VE's, "real world" adjustments can be made to the AFR and Timing tables to reflect the actual conditions the bike is being ridden in. I don't quite agree with all of your points above but I'm not going to get this thread off track by debating them here.
I could indeed be wrong on the outcome results of narrow band tuning. my knowledge on that is limited to what I saw as suggested changes to my tune and also getting advice / info from the more experienced EFI tuning experts. There could be a way to beneficially use narrow band tuning to fine tune a wide band dyno optimized tune but I have not been able to see how it could be done.
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 2,017
Likes: 599
From: Columbus, OH
Sounds like you guys have a lot of time into the fine tuning of these bikes with these tuners and dyno's. Great work. A little over my head right now.
I have read online about the Power Vision PV-2B this morning. So as of right now I am going with the Power Vision PV-2B, Freedom Performance Amendments and the Harley Burst Air Cleaner for my bike (thats enough money for now). Have to decide if I want the chrome or the black pipes. I am leaning towards the chrome to go with the color of my bike. If I had a silver, gray or black bike I think the black pipes would look right.
I have read online about the Power Vision PV-2B this morning. So as of right now I am going with the Power Vision PV-2B, Freedom Performance Amendments and the Harley Burst Air Cleaner for my bike (thats enough money for now). Have to decide if I want the chrome or the black pipes. I am leaning towards the chrome to go with the color of my bike. If I had a silver, gray or black bike I think the black pipes would look right.
Keep us posted on how things turn out
Road Warrior
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,358
Likes: 220
From: Dallas
I had the opposite reaction with the powervision. I think it's a pain in the *** to use and probably the hardest one to figure out, especially WinPv. Just setting up the gauges is a chore.
Thanks to LA Dog and his understanding of it all. He was able to send me a map that he was running and I uploaded it and was done.
I think if you're willing to put in the time to understand it the PV is the best option. If you want to upload a map and do a little auto tuning and be done then the PV may be overkill.
Thanks to LA Dog and his understanding of it all. He was able to send me a map that he was running and I uploaded it and was done.
I think if you're willing to put in the time to understand it the PV is the best option. If you want to upload a map and do a little auto tuning and be done then the PV may be overkill.
Road Captain
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 735
Likes: 30
From: Orlando, FL
I had the opposite reaction with the powervision. I think it's a pain in the *** to use and probably the hardest one to figure out, especially WinPv. Just setting up the gauges is a chore.
Thanks to LA Dog and his understanding of it all. He was able to send me a map that he was running and I uploaded it and was done.
I think if you're willing to put in the time to understand it the PV is the best option. If you want to upload a map and do a little auto tuning and be done then the PV may be overkill.
Thanks to LA Dog and his understanding of it all. He was able to send me a map that he was running and I uploaded it and was done.
I think if you're willing to put in the time to understand it the PV is the best option. If you want to upload a map and do a little auto tuning and be done then the PV may be overkill.
I know I could get a few more hp out of the bike with the powervision and a dyno tune and I feel like it would be worth the extra effort involved if I was taking things further with the bike, but for a basic stage 1 it runs great with the FP3 and it took no time to install and load the map, so I am very happy with that choice.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 3,185
Likes: 189
From: 90210
Wow everyone has some great points on the FP3 and PV tuners- both have their pros, cons and intended uses for sure. One new thing going now for PV, is the target tune add on provides a great benefit- anyone willing to convert their o2 sensors to wide band can auto tune the bike to both a performance and economy level of fuel ratio, and the system will make the HD ECM operate at those set parameters optimally all the time. What's significant about this is that prior to the target tune add on, the only way to have the bike operate in real time with wide band o2 required replacing the entire ECM with an aftermarket unit.
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 2,017
Likes: 599
From: Columbus, OH
I hear lots of good stuff about FP3 but I haven't had any first hand experience or any time to research it's capabilities. The bottom line is you have to have something you're comfortable working with. Hell I liked working with my SE tuner but you can get lynched for saying that around this forum.
We specialize in EFI tuning and carry both the FP3 and Dynojet Power Vision, we are happy to assist with any technical questions before or after the sale. For those interested we are now offering a Fuel Moto Best Price Guarantee on Dynojet tuning products, if you find a lower price on a Dynojet tuning component Fuel Moto will match it. For full details visit https://www.fuelmotousa.com/p-33961-...-products.html
__________________
Jamie Long / Fuel Moto USA
The USA's Leader V-Twin EFI & Performance www.fuelmotousa.com
Contact 920-423-3309
Email jamie@fuelmotousa.com
Jamie Long / Fuel Moto USA
The USA's Leader V-Twin EFI & Performance www.fuelmotousa.com
Contact 920-423-3309
Email jamie@fuelmotousa.com
Thread Starter
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Road Master
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 1,027
Likes: 192
From: Danburg, Georgia
I'm trying not to flip flop around but I am until I pull the trigger and buy. I'll make up my mind in the next day or two. Thanks for the info.
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Cruiser
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 164
Likes: 4
From: Kansas
It's possible to still use your PV even if your dyno guy tunes with TTS. This is from the PV users manual (pages 27,28):
Loading a Copy of the Original Tune File or a Copy of the Current Tune File
The Power Vision will allow you to load either a Copy of Current tune or a Copy of Original
tune files.
The Copy of Original tune file is a copy of the tune that was present in your ECM when the
Power Vision first locked to your ECM. In other words, it is a copy of the backup file that was
created and stored in the Power Vision. This is a great way for those who are happy with the
way their bike runs, but want access to their existing tune in order to make a few adjustments.
The Copy of Current tune file is a copy of the current tune that has been flashed to your ECM.
Use the following steps to load and flash either a Copy of Original tune or a Copy of Current
tune file to the ECM.
1 Touch Program Vehicle >Load Tune >Load Copy.
2 Touch Load Copy of Current or Load Copy of Original.
3 Select a slot to save the tune file.
Note:If there is any data in the selected slot, it will be overwritten.
4 Touch Select to continue.
The Tune is now ready.
5 Select Flash to flash this tune to the ECM.
Note during the flash process, do not turn off the bike. Once complete, you will be
prompted to turn the bike off for 10 seconds.
Or
Touch Edit to edit this tune.
Or
Touch Exit to exit the screen without any changes.
Note:You can edit any tune thats loaded in the Tune Manager prior to flashing your ECM.
The Power Vision allows you to make basic adjustments to your tunes directly on the
device without using a computer. In order to gain full access to your tune files, youll need
to download them from the Power Vision to WinPV, our custom tuning software.
I did the same thing with my SE tune, you would still have the capabilities of the PV if you would ever want to edit your tune. With the PV's logging capability and ability to display ECM parameters on the gauge panel it would still be a worthwhile tool to have at your disposal. While I don't have any first hand experience with TTS, the biggest complaint I keep reading is the fact that you have to use it with a laptop, while the PV is self contained.
Loading a Copy of the Original Tune File or a Copy of the Current Tune File
The Power Vision will allow you to load either a Copy of Current tune or a Copy of Original
tune files.
The Copy of Original tune file is a copy of the tune that was present in your ECM when the
Power Vision first locked to your ECM. In other words, it is a copy of the backup file that was
created and stored in the Power Vision. This is a great way for those who are happy with the
way their bike runs, but want access to their existing tune in order to make a few adjustments.
The Copy of Current tune file is a copy of the current tune that has been flashed to your ECM.
Use the following steps to load and flash either a Copy of Original tune or a Copy of Current
tune file to the ECM.
1 Touch Program Vehicle >Load Tune >Load Copy.
2 Touch Load Copy of Current or Load Copy of Original.
3 Select a slot to save the tune file.
Note:If there is any data in the selected slot, it will be overwritten.
4 Touch Select to continue.
The Tune is now ready.
5 Select Flash to flash this tune to the ECM.
Note during the flash process, do not turn off the bike. Once complete, you will be
prompted to turn the bike off for 10 seconds.
Or
Touch Edit to edit this tune.
Or
Touch Exit to exit the screen without any changes.
Note:You can edit any tune thats loaded in the Tune Manager prior to flashing your ECM.
The Power Vision allows you to make basic adjustments to your tunes directly on the
device without using a computer. In order to gain full access to your tune files, youll need
to download them from the Power Vision to WinPV, our custom tuning software.
I did the same thing with my SE tune, you would still have the capabilities of the PV if you would ever want to edit your tune. With the PV's logging capability and ability to display ECM parameters on the gauge panel it would still be a worthwhile tool to have at your disposal. While I don't have any first hand experience with TTS, the biggest complaint I keep reading is the fact that you have to use it with a laptop, while the PV is self contained.
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 2,017
Likes: 599
From: Columbus, OH
A little update that might help others. I called fuel Moto tonight (sense that's where I bought my pv2) and asked them about using my pv2 to copy the tune my dyno tuner is installing with a tts so I can still use my pv2 as a full tuner and not just for the gauges. Answer was NO. Said that how the tts software is set up it locks all other tuners from accessing it out. UNLESS you load your factory map back to the bike to unlock the tts from the bike. Which is pointless if you pay for a dyno tune.
So I either just go with the tts and dyno tune (which I trust the tuner and he has a great rep around here) and put the pv2 in the closet. Or I install the cams and head gasket still and have Fuel Moto send me a tune for my upgrades and then run some auto tunes. Thing is, I don't really want to drive 3 hours to have my Indy do the install and not tune. My local HD shop is 15 minutes from me but didn't put off a very confident vibe when I first asked them about the cam upgrade. They might do a good job but not sure. And I've never tore into an engine and not sure if I could do the job myself. Would rather have somebody with some experience do it. Still undecided but figured I would pass on the info.