Raked Trees on Softail to fix trail?
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Novice
Joined: Nov 2005
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Raked Trees on Softail to fix trail?
Hello, I was hoping for any info or input from you guys. I've done a search and read up on rake and trail and raked trees, I also too some crude measurments and calculated trail. I have a 2001 Softail Standard which has a 32 degree rake stock, but since I have lowered the rear 2 inches and installed a new 21x3.5 front wheel with a 120/70 which is about an inch larger in diameter than the stock 21 80/80, I have efectively changed the rake angle. The front end seems to want to flop over at low speed turns, which I've read is aresult of too much trail.
I dont have sofisticated measuring devices but from what I can tell with a level and angle finder the rake is now at 34-35 degrees. Using the Perse calculator and all my measurments the trail is 6.58, and trying to determine my trail in my garage I get about 6 and an eighth, which is too much. So going by the calculator I should use 3-5 degree trees to get in in specs.
Does all this sound right, I like the look of a kicked out front end but thats not why I'm interested in the raked trees, I just want to fix the trail so it rides like stoke again or better. Any input or ideas would be greatly appriciated. Heres the measurments that I got...
Neck height from ground- 36 1/2" to ceterline of the top of the frames neck its 37 to the top edge of the neck
Axle Height from ground- 13 1/2 " to ceter of axle
Neck Rake- 34 Degrees as best as I can determine
Trail, as best as I can determine- 6 1/8
What do you think? Thanks
Butch
I dont have sofisticated measuring devices but from what I can tell with a level and angle finder the rake is now at 34-35 degrees. Using the Perse calculator and all my measurments the trail is 6.58, and trying to determine my trail in my garage I get about 6 and an eighth, which is too much. So going by the calculator I should use 3-5 degree trees to get in in specs.
Does all this sound right, I like the look of a kicked out front end but thats not why I'm interested in the raked trees, I just want to fix the trail so it rides like stoke again or better. Any input or ideas would be greatly appriciated. Heres the measurments that I got...
Neck height from ground- 36 1/2" to ceterline of the top of the frames neck its 37 to the top edge of the neck
Axle Height from ground- 13 1/2 " to ceter of axle
Neck Rake- 34 Degrees as best as I can determine
Trail, as best as I can determine- 6 1/8
What do you think? Thanks
Butch
Road Master
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,076
Likes: 3
From: Brick NJ
RE: Raked Trees on Softail to fix trail?
another interesting point is that i heard stock softail frames are raked to 32* and there is actually another 2* built into the stock trees for a total of 34* rake stock........this could add some more homework to your proposition
mine also handles a little squirrely at low speed since i slammed my rear and am also runnining a 120/70-21
was walking it around a steeply sloped parking lot last week and damn near drop the bike LOL
mine also handles a little squirrely at low speed since i slammed my rear and am also runnining a 120/70-21
was walking it around a steeply sloped parking lot last week and damn near drop the bike LOL
Road Master
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 808
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From:
RE: Raked Trees on Softail to fix trail?
Try this one..
http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/advchoppercalc.html
I don't think changing front wheel diameter would change you rake..you might want to lower front of bike 1" and see if front end acts more likenormal..lowering front end would make frame sit closer to level and look a hell of a lot better than having front end raked out and frame higher at front than rear.
Later
http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/advchoppercalc.html
I don't think changing front wheel diameter would change you rake..you might want to lower front of bike 1" and see if front end acts more likenormal..lowering front end would make frame sit closer to level and look a hell of a lot better than having front end raked out and frame higher at front than rear.
Later
Thread Starter
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Novice
Joined: Nov 2005
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RE: Raked Trees on Softail to fix trail?
20Nightrain03, Glad to see I'm not alone here, seems we have the same setup. Is your frontend stock? I noticed the handleing difference when I lowered the rear and then it was amplified when I just put on the new wheels, it feels like the front end will just flop to the side during a real slow turn. Hows yours at higher speeds, I havent had a chance to get it up too fast cause I'm still finishing it up.
And smknflms,I do think the front tire diameter makes a difference because with a taller overall tire, the front of the bike gets lifted in effect tilting the frame and creating more rake.
Heres a couple shots of my bike, I just added the handlebars and risers, stretched tank, front fender, cut the rear struts and added a 8.5" strutless rear fender, and put on a set of Pro One Sinister wheels, 18x5.5 rear with a 180mm tire, and a 21x3.5 front with the 120/70, and a side mount plate...
Any more opinions wouls be great. Thanks
[IMG]local://upfiles/6069/31287C2FDA3343FCA2FB6F6ACBD89D41.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]local://upfiles/6069/D261D69141564341A0312C9D36726893.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]local://upfiles/6069/2D9ADEA2E1E1463986BFE50EAFD60381.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]local://upfiles/6069/CC78928A732446C39646878479EBA144.jpg[/IMG]
And smknflms,I do think the front tire diameter makes a difference because with a taller overall tire, the front of the bike gets lifted in effect tilting the frame and creating more rake.
Heres a couple shots of my bike, I just added the handlebars and risers, stretched tank, front fender, cut the rear struts and added a 8.5" strutless rear fender, and put on a set of Pro One Sinister wheels, 18x5.5 rear with a 180mm tire, and a 21x3.5 front with the 120/70, and a side mount plate...
Any more opinions wouls be great. Thanks
[IMG]local://upfiles/6069/31287C2FDA3343FCA2FB6F6ACBD89D41.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]local://upfiles/6069/D261D69141564341A0312C9D36726893.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]local://upfiles/6069/2D9ADEA2E1E1463986BFE50EAFD60381.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]local://upfiles/6069/CC78928A732446C39646878479EBA144.jpg[/IMG]
Big Kahuna HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 29,598
Likes: 19
From: Oregon
RE: Raked Trees on Softail to fix trail?
ORIGINAL:
another interesting point is that i heard stock softail frames are raked to 32* and there is actually another 2* built into the stock trees for a total of 34* rake stock...
another interesting point is that i heard stock softail frames are raked to 32* and there is actually another 2* built into the stock trees for a total of 34* rake stock...
Might be thinking of wide glides?
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Road Master
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,076
Likes: 3
From: Brick NJ
RE: Raked Trees on Softail to fix trail?
i should of been more specific meaning softails with wide glide front ends..............FXST and FXSTB only
not sure about this myself, but it is something i have seen tossed around on the forum and other places
not sure about this myself, but it is something i have seen tossed around on the forum and other places
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Big Kahuna HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 29,598
Likes: 19
From: Oregon
RE: Raked Trees on Softail to fix trail?
ORIGINAL: 20NightTrain03
i should of been more specific meaning softails with wide glide front ends..............FXST and FXSTB only
not sure about this myself, but it is something i have seen tossed around on the forum and other places
i should of been more specific meaning softails with wide glide front ends..............FXST and FXSTB only
not sure about this myself, but it is something i have seen tossed around on the forum and other places
In the first group of specs, you will see rake and trail.
Softail Standards and Customs, and the Deuce have a rake of 32 and a trail of 5".
Wide Glides alone have a rake of 34 and a trail of 5.1.
Softails like the Deluxe, Fatboy and Heritage are 32/5.8.
The Softail Heritage Springer is 32/6.3. That has everything to do with the forward spring lever.
The Super Glides, Low Rider and Street Bob are 29/4.7.
I have a '96 Wide Glide and the differences in rake between it and my Deuce are very apparent.
I can't tell if the WG has an extra 2 degrees of rake in the forks to get to 34. It could be and I've heard that. If it does, then I'm not sure how it gets another bit of trail. It seems like trail would decrease and strictly by the book it would. Maybe the forks are longer on the WG increasing the trail? Dunno.
Thanks for the comps on my sig pic.
JB