07 Softail Custom- Need to add P/C when doing pipes?
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Intermediate
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 34
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07 Softail Custom- Need to add P/C when doing pipes?
I am considering putting Vance & Hines bigshot staggereds on my 07 custom. One dealer says I do NOT need to use a power commander or anything of the sort, just put on the pipes and I will be fine.( he said H/D themselves told him that). Another says I must use a fuel management system and dyno it. Both said if I add a highflow air cleaner I would need a P/C and a dyno tune but I only want the better sound of pipes.
Cruiser
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 109
Likes: 4
From: Stafford, VA
RE: 07 Softail Custom- Need to add P/C when doing pipes?
You're not doing the full stage 1 if you only change the pipes. If you are going to adjust the breathing out, you should also adjust the breathing in (AC - either Screaming Eagle or Big Sucker). To make all this run best, you can get the stage 1 download from HD, but it will not match your upgrades optimally. To best finish the upgrade, you should get a ECM control mechanism (PCIII, SERT, etc.)
The PCIII is probably cheapest, and you can adjust easily on your own, but it is probably not quirte as precise, and it adds a lot of wires/connectors to your battery area (already crowded).
The SERT is probably the most precise, but more expensive and normally requires expertise (more $$$) in configuration. I'm pretty sure this device only changes your ECM, and doesn't need to remain connected to the bike, so more room.
There are other, new fuel management systems that are other options (fuelpac, etc.). But I am not familiar with those too well. Good luck.
The PCIII is probably cheapest, and you can adjust easily on your own, but it is probably not quirte as precise, and it adds a lot of wires/connectors to your battery area (already crowded).
The SERT is probably the most precise, but more expensive and normally requires expertise (more $$$) in configuration. I'm pretty sure this device only changes your ECM, and doesn't need to remain connected to the bike, so more room.
There are other, new fuel management systems that are other options (fuelpac, etc.). But I am not familiar with those too well. Good luck.
Road Warrior
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,352
Likes: 3
From: Sydney, Australia
RE: 07 Softail Custom- Need to add P/C when doing pipes?
Hey Hammer!
Does the AC really make more difference to the whole setup / flow than the exhaust or is that an accumulative thing? ie: If you were only to change the AC and NOT the exhaust would the same apply?
Regards,
Dean
PS: This forum is GREAT for learning !
Does the AC really make more difference to the whole setup / flow than the exhaust or is that an accumulative thing? ie: If you were only to change the AC and NOT the exhaust would the same apply?
Regards,
Dean
PS: This forum is GREAT for learning !
Tourer
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 360
Likes: 0
From: Louisville, KY
RE: 07 Softail Custom- Need to add P/C when doing pipes?
Well if your not taking in any more air your not going to blow any extra out. The big bottle neck is the stock AC...it is just so restrictive.
More than likely you will not need the PCIII if you just change the pipes and leave the AC alone. I have seen a few bikes that go very lean once you change the pipes though. Every bike is different and your going to have to try it and see.
The PCIII is one of the best choices out there and is very configurable. To hell with the SERT since any changes you want to make will cost you money at the Stealer. When you do want to change out the AC, and you will, that will cost you another tune. With the PCIII you can do it yourself easily. The PCIII is one of the most precise tuners out there. You can tune through the whole throttle range at every 250 RPM. Hard to get more precise than that. Actually with the PCIII and a good dyno tech you can get your air fuel mixture exact. Even without the dyno you can get it pretty damn close. If your not racing your bike you don't need a dyno at all.
More than likely you will not need the PCIII if you just change the pipes and leave the AC alone. I have seen a few bikes that go very lean once you change the pipes though. Every bike is different and your going to have to try it and see.
The PCIII is one of the best choices out there and is very configurable. To hell with the SERT since any changes you want to make will cost you money at the Stealer. When you do want to change out the AC, and you will, that will cost you another tune. With the PCIII you can do it yourself easily. The PCIII is one of the most precise tuners out there. You can tune through the whole throttle range at every 250 RPM. Hard to get more precise than that. Actually with the PCIII and a good dyno tech you can get your air fuel mixture exact. Even without the dyno you can get it pretty damn close. If your not racing your bike you don't need a dyno at all.
Road Warrior
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,352
Likes: 3
From: Sydney, Australia
RE: 07 Softail Custom- Need to add P/C when doing pipes?
Howdy All,
So is the SERT a direct replacement for the standard module or just something you use to program the standard one?
Regards,
DeanO
So is the SERT a direct replacement for the standard module or just something you use to program the standard one?
Regards,
DeanO
Tourer
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 360
Likes: 0
From: Louisville, KY
RE: 07 Softail Custom- Need to add P/C when doing pipes?
Correct me if I'm wrong but the SERT is just a CD that you use to remap the stock ECM.
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May our Moderator Rest in Peace
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,386
Likes: 35
From: Rochester, NY
RE: 07 Softail Custom- Need to add P/C when doing pipes?
No the SERT is not "Just a CD", its also the cable connector and interface box used to hook up a PC to the bike's ECM under the seat.
With it you can change ALL of the internal settings in the ECM and install completely new maps.
Oddly enough with the PCIII you don't actually change anything inside the ECM. All the maps and settings are exactly the same all the time. What the PCIII does is get between the ECM and the bikes electronics and change the output signals to the injectors. To either lengthen or shorten the pulse width for more or less fuel.
With the SERT you are actually changing the internal MAP's in the ECM. The down side is that you can't just change a setting here and there like you can with the PCIII. You have to reload a complete Map everytime you want to change anything. Mostly because the memory setup in the ECM doesn't allow for random access changes. Its only setup to accept Maps as a complete entity. But if you can live with it, its a lot more precise and accurate. But remember that anything that's more precise takes a little more work to get the most out of.
With it you can change ALL of the internal settings in the ECM and install completely new maps.
Oddly enough with the PCIII you don't actually change anything inside the ECM. All the maps and settings are exactly the same all the time. What the PCIII does is get between the ECM and the bikes electronics and change the output signals to the injectors. To either lengthen or shorten the pulse width for more or less fuel.
With the SERT you are actually changing the internal MAP's in the ECM. The down side is that you can't just change a setting here and there like you can with the PCIII. You have to reload a complete Map everytime you want to change anything. Mostly because the memory setup in the ECM doesn't allow for random access changes. Its only setup to accept Maps as a complete entity. But if you can live with it, its a lot more precise and accurate. But remember that anything that's more precise takes a little more work to get the most out of.
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Road Warrior
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,749
Likes: 4
From: Augusta, Ga.
RE: 07 Softail Custom- Need to add P/C when doing pipes?
Lol..don't forget the celophane wrapper either.
The catch 22 here is that the 07s are super leanstraight from the dealer anyway and many stock bikes with stock pipes and stock air cleaner still need to be richened up to get them to run right and cool down.
The accepted practice is pipes NO...AC yes. The stock AC blows.
If it were my bike I would at bare minimum do pipes, AC and either a download or a PCIII.
You don't need to purchase a SERT....many if not most dealers will download a stage 1 MAP to richen you up and get the bike to run well after pipes and AC.
The catch 22 here is that the 07s are super leanstraight from the dealer anyway and many stock bikes with stock pipes and stock air cleaner still need to be richened up to get them to run right and cool down.
The accepted practice is pipes NO...AC yes. The stock AC blows.
If it were my bike I would at bare minimum do pipes, AC and either a download or a PCIII.
You don't need to purchase a SERT....many if not most dealers will download a stage 1 MAP to richen you up and get the bike to run well after pipes and AC.