2018 with stage 2 torque cam? Anyone?
#11
09-15-2017, 03:55 AM
Road Warrior
Regarding gear ratios, I just did some comparisons and all of the 2018 Softails are geared the same, with the overall ratio in sixth gear being 2.79:1
I then compared it to a Road King and found the overall ratio in sixth gear to be 2.875.
There is a lot of incorrect information out there about the 2018's. I was turning blue in the face arguing with people that were saying the Softail M8 is wet sump a week or two ago. Of course it is dry sump, but that is one example of misinformation. I suspect something like that is happening with gear ratio discussion.
I then compared it to a Road King and found the overall ratio in sixth gear to be 2.875.
There is a lot of incorrect information out there about the 2018's. I was turning blue in the face arguing with people that were saying the Softail M8 is wet sump a week or two ago. Of course it is dry sump, but that is one example of misinformation. I suspect something like that is happening with gear ratio discussion.
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Thingfish (09-15-2017)
#12
09-15-2017, 05:32 AM
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Lafayette, Louisiana
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The thing about the 114 to 117 kit is it gets you the biggest increase under warranty now and sets you up for more later, once the warranty is expired.
Three cubic inches doesn't seem like much but the percentage of gains indicates that is a bigger boost than what would be expected from such a small increase in displacement.
I don't think there are any bad choices here, except of course the S&S kit that was mentioned due to warranty.
The two big warranty issues on the touring bikes have been fluid migration for which there is no fix and various issues that relate to the oil pump.
Three cubic inches doesn't seem like much but the percentage of gains indicates that is a bigger boost than what would be expected from such a small increase in displacement.
I don't think there are any bad choices here, except of course the S&S kit that was mentioned due to warranty.
The two big warranty issues on the touring bikes have been fluid migration for which there is no fix and various issues that relate to the oil pump.
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Thingfish (09-15-2017)
#13
09-15-2017, 06:42 AM
Outstanding HDF Member
I think you should look at this. It seems like you get a lot for your money and gets you in CVO territory since it takes you from 114 to 117. The 114 and 117 have the same stroke, so this is mostly bigger bore and cam.
https://www.harley-davidson.com/stor...18-92500071--1
I advocate for this since this is the most performance that retains warranty. By just getting a cam, later on, you might start thinking, I should have gotten the big bore kit but won't be able to without shredding your warranty. Warranty is important on a new engine design and on a bike that costs four to five times as much as an Evo these days for example.
https://www.harley-davidson.com/stor...18-92500071--1
I advocate for this since this is the most performance that retains warranty. By just getting a cam, later on, you might start thinking, I should have gotten the big bore kit but won't be able to without shredding your warranty. Warranty is important on a new engine design and on a bike that costs four to five times as much as an Evo these days for example.
#14
09-15-2017, 07:49 AM
Seasoned HDF Member
So I spoke to my dealer this morning, and this is what they said about Warranty. Bear in mind this is the UK and so things may be slightly different....
For Stage 1, as long as you use Harley hardware parts (i.e. Street Cannons) then it doesn't matter what you remap or tune the bike with. Doesn't have to be Harley's tuners and my existing Powervision is fine. No issue here and can be done by the owner.
For Stage 2, if you use non Harley parts, the engine warranty will be voided. The rest of the bike will however still be covered. Also, cams need to be installed by the dealer OR by a fully trained and certified motorcycle mechanic currently employed by a professional shop. In other words, if you do a cam install in your garage, whether it is HD parts or not, it voids the engine warranty.
They did not know about whether or not a Stage 2 had to be installed within 60 days of purchase to keep warranty intact, but are going to speak to HD UK and let me know. They hadn't heard of that before and said that if they install the parts, there should be no warranty issues, no matter when it was done.
For Stage 1, as long as you use Harley hardware parts (i.e. Street Cannons) then it doesn't matter what you remap or tune the bike with. Doesn't have to be Harley's tuners and my existing Powervision is fine. No issue here and can be done by the owner.
For Stage 2, if you use non Harley parts, the engine warranty will be voided. The rest of the bike will however still be covered. Also, cams need to be installed by the dealer OR by a fully trained and certified motorcycle mechanic currently employed by a professional shop. In other words, if you do a cam install in your garage, whether it is HD parts or not, it voids the engine warranty.
They did not know about whether or not a Stage 2 had to be installed within 60 days of purchase to keep warranty intact, but are going to speak to HD UK and let me know. They hadn't heard of that before and said that if they install the parts, there should be no warranty issues, no matter when it was done.
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Thingfish (09-15-2017)
#15
09-15-2017, 08:26 AM
Road Master
To my knowledge the within 60 days thing is related to for HD parts that are installed, that say compliant, with those parts being covered by the full new bike warranty for the full two years, and any additional years if you do an ESP product. Outside of the 60 day period, those HD parts are only covered for the length of time for that specific part (normally 1 year). If those parts fail, if under the 60 day, the replacement part is the upgraded one, if not, and after the one year part warranty, HD "may"only cover the stock part, and you would need to pay the difference to get the upgraded part ...all labor costs for under 60 day would be covered, otherwise, not sure...
you can still put in HD compliant parts after the 60 days, and the bike would still have the warranty intact, but it wouldn't be considered under the "new" as delivered full bike length of warranty..
As far as the tuner not having to be HD? That may be an individual dealer thing...I thought it had to be the street tuner or it was a goner...again, talking US..not sure about UK or Europe (if you travel)
you can still put in HD compliant parts after the 60 days, and the bike would still have the warranty intact, but it wouldn't be considered under the "new" as delivered full bike length of warranty..
As far as the tuner not having to be HD? That may be an individual dealer thing...I thought it had to be the street tuner or it was a goner...again, talking US..not sure about UK or Europe (if you travel)
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Thingfish (09-15-2017)
#16
09-15-2017, 09:42 AM
Seasoned HDF Member
The FM 117" kit is $1,199.00.
Complete install with kit at their facility is $2,099 (including dyno). 123 hp / 134 tq.
Kit does not come with the tuner, injectors, throttle body or exhaust. Same as HD stage 3, you need to purchase those items separately and I'm not sure HD includes dyno time.
If I lived near FM I would go there, unfortunately, I don't. I do have a nice indy with dyno and great mechanics close to me.
I was hoping S&S would have something on the shelf by now but they don't.
Complete install with kit at their facility is $2,099 (including dyno). 123 hp / 134 tq.
Kit does not come with the tuner, injectors, throttle body or exhaust. Same as HD stage 3, you need to purchase those items separately and I'm not sure HD includes dyno time.
If I lived near FM I would go there, unfortunately, I don't. I do have a nice indy with dyno and great mechanics close to me.
I was hoping S&S would have something on the shelf by now but they don't.
#17
09-15-2017, 10:41 AM
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Lafayette, Louisiana
Posts: 21,758
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Originally Posted by Oldskewl
The FM 117" kit is $1,199.00.
Complete install with kit at their facility is $2,099 (including dyno). 123 hp / 134 tq.
Kit does not come with the tuner, injectors, throttle body or exhaust. Same as HD stage 3, you need to purchase those items separately and I'm not sure HD includes dyno time.
If I lived near FM I would go there, unfortunately, I don't. I do have a nice indy with dyno and great mechanics close to me.
I was hoping S&S would have something on the shelf by now but they don't.
Complete install with kit at their facility is $2,099 (including dyno). 123 hp / 134 tq.
Kit does not come with the tuner, injectors, throttle body or exhaust. Same as HD stage 3, you need to purchase those items separately and I'm not sure HD includes dyno time.
If I lived near FM I would go there, unfortunately, I don't. I do have a nice indy with dyno and great mechanics close to me.
I was hoping S&S would have something on the shelf by now but they don't.
#18
09-15-2017, 10:55 AM
Good stuff....maybe after the warranty...
Well, I don't have one installed and my bike doesn't arrive until September 30th but I am toying with the same idea.
I am going to the dealership today to pay the rest of the money for the bike I have on order, so will be having a detailed chat on installing Stage 2 with the torque cam. I would really rather do it myself than have the dealer install it - but I need to know their commitment on warranty here in the UK....
Edited to say that I looked at the 114 to 117 upgrade, but I really can't justify it for 3ci. I think I will do Stage 2 then once the warranty expires have the heads done or use the Screaming Eagle CNC heads. 114" should be enough for me if the rest of the components are in harmony!
I am going to the dealership today to pay the rest of the money for the bike I have on order, so will be having a detailed chat on installing Stage 2 with the torque cam. I would really rather do it myself than have the dealer install it - but I need to know their commitment on warranty here in the UK....
Edited to say that I looked at the 114 to 117 upgrade, but I really can't justify it for 3ci. I think I will do Stage 2 then once the warranty expires have the heads done or use the Screaming Eagle CNC heads. 114" should be enough for me if the rest of the components are in harmony!
Hard not to think about a little...
So I spoke to my dealer this morning, and this is what they said about Warranty. Bear in mind this is the UK and so things may be slightly different....
For Stage 1, as long as you use Harley hardware parts (i.e. Street Cannons) then it doesn't matter what you remap or tune the bike with. Doesn't have to be Harley's tuners and my existing Powervision is fine. No issue here and can be done by the owner.
For Stage 2, if you use non Harley parts, the engine warranty will be voided. The rest of the bike will however still be covered. Also, cams need to be installed by the dealer OR by a fully trained and certified motorcycle mechanic currently employed by a professional shop. In other words, if you do a cam install in your garage, whether it is HD parts or not, it voids the engine warranty.
They did not know about whether or not a Stage 2 had to be installed within 60 days of purchase to keep warranty intact, but are going to speak to HD UK and let me know. They hadn't heard of that before and said that if they install the parts, there should be no warranty issues, no matter when it was done.
For Stage 1, as long as you use Harley hardware parts (i.e. Street Cannons) then it doesn't matter what you remap or tune the bike with. Doesn't have to be Harley's tuners and my existing Powervision is fine. No issue here and can be done by the owner.
For Stage 2, if you use non Harley parts, the engine warranty will be voided. The rest of the bike will however still be covered. Also, cams need to be installed by the dealer OR by a fully trained and certified motorcycle mechanic currently employed by a professional shop. In other words, if you do a cam install in your garage, whether it is HD parts or not, it voids the engine warranty.
They did not know about whether or not a Stage 2 had to be installed within 60 days of purchase to keep warranty intact, but are going to speak to HD UK and let me know. They hadn't heard of that before and said that if they install the parts, there should be no warranty issues, no matter when it was done.
The FM 117" kit is $1,199.00.
Complete install with kit at their facility is $2,099 (including dyno). 123 hp / 134 tq.
Kit does not come with the tuner, injectors, throttle body or exhaust. Same as HD stage 3, you need to purchase those items separately and I'm not sure HD includes dyno time.
If I lived near FM I would go there, unfortunately, I don't. I do have a nice indy with dyno and great mechanics close to me.
I was hoping S&S would have something on the shelf by now but they don't.
Complete install with kit at their facility is $2,099 (including dyno). 123 hp / 134 tq.
Kit does not come with the tuner, injectors, throttle body or exhaust. Same as HD stage 3, you need to purchase those items separately and I'm not sure HD includes dyno time.
If I lived near FM I would go there, unfortunately, I don't. I do have a nice indy with dyno and great mechanics close to me.
I was hoping S&S would have something on the shelf by now but they don't.
There's the rub...
#19
09-15-2017, 10:56 AM
To my knowledge the within 60 days thing is related to for HD parts that are installed, that say compliant, with those parts being covered by the full new bike warranty for the full two years, and any additional years if you do an ESP product. Outside of the 60 day period, those HD parts are only covered for the length of time for that specific part (normally 1 year). If those parts fail, if under the 60 day, the replacement part is the upgraded one, if not, and after the one year part warranty, HD "may"only cover the stock part, and you would need to pay the difference to get the upgraded part ...all labor costs for under 60 day would be covered, otherwise, not sure...
you can still put in HD compliant parts after the 60 days, and the bike would still have the warranty intact, but it wouldn't be considered under the "new" as delivered full bike length of warranty..
As far as the tuner not having to be HD? That may be an individual dealer thing...I thought it had to be the street tuner or it was a goner...again, talking US..not sure about UK or Europe (if you travel)
you can still put in HD compliant parts after the 60 days, and the bike would still have the warranty intact, but it wouldn't be considered under the "new" as delivered full bike length of warranty..
As far as the tuner not having to be HD? That may be an individual dealer thing...I thought it had to be the street tuner or it was a goner...again, talking US..not sure about UK or Europe (if you travel)
#20
09-15-2017, 02:09 PM
Seasoned HDF Member