2003 Heritage Softail Issues
Thread Starter
|
Stage II
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
From: Washington
2003 Heritage Softail Issues
Alright everyone, I've tried my best to search for solutions to my issue, but I think it's a bit too specific. So, I'm asking for some help 
I recently purchased an 03 Heritage Anniversary edition with EFI. The bike is beautiful with about 35,000 miles on it. Only 1 other owner, and he did a few mods: Big Bore 95" 10.25:1 pistons, Crane 310 cams, hi flow air filter (not sure what brand), Thunder Header exhaust, and a Screamin' Eagle Super Tuner.
I bought the bike in Bozeman, MT (my hometown, wanted to support local shop) which sits at an elevation of about 4,800 feet. Bike ran really well when I test rode, and also for the one day I got to ride after purchase. I then shipped it to my current residence in North Bend, WA which is about sea level. I didn't realize the bike had no O2 sensors, so the original tune on it was obviously problematic at sea level. The bike would spurt and sputter when trying to hold 20-25mph in 1st or 2nd gear. I took it to the local H-D shop and had them dyno tune the bike for sea level (normally a $400 procedure, but they did it for free because it took almost 2 weeks to get done). The mechanic got it tuned pretty well, the air/fuel ratio is pretty steady at 13 throughout the RPM range now, and I got a bit more HP (85.4) and Torque (96.31). The issue is the engine is having starting and pinging issues. Mechanic got the pinging to a minimum, but I was told the cams are way too big for the high-pressure pistons.
As it stands now, the bike runs quite well when running. However, it kind of chugs when trying to turn-over - especially when hot. I had to jump start the bike once because it killed the battery. I thought maybe the battery was bad/old, so I replaced it with a brand new one - same issue. I'm no mechanic, but my thinking: the low-pressure cams paired with high-pressure pistons are creating an extra hardship for the starter, and the stock battery doesn't have the amperage to compensate. It actually throws a code when it hard-starts. However, when I jumped the bike, it turned over easily and immediately.
So here's my question to you helpful people: Should I invest in new cams/labor/tune which will probably cost around $1,500 and "maybe" fix the issue? Or should I just pack along a jump-pack in case I kill the battery again?
I recently purchased an 03 Heritage Anniversary edition with EFI. The bike is beautiful with about 35,000 miles on it. Only 1 other owner, and he did a few mods: Big Bore 95" 10.25:1 pistons, Crane 310 cams, hi flow air filter (not sure what brand), Thunder Header exhaust, and a Screamin' Eagle Super Tuner.
I bought the bike in Bozeman, MT (my hometown, wanted to support local shop) which sits at an elevation of about 4,800 feet. Bike ran really well when I test rode, and also for the one day I got to ride after purchase. I then shipped it to my current residence in North Bend, WA which is about sea level. I didn't realize the bike had no O2 sensors, so the original tune on it was obviously problematic at sea level. The bike would spurt and sputter when trying to hold 20-25mph in 1st or 2nd gear. I took it to the local H-D shop and had them dyno tune the bike for sea level (normally a $400 procedure, but they did it for free because it took almost 2 weeks to get done). The mechanic got it tuned pretty well, the air/fuel ratio is pretty steady at 13 throughout the RPM range now, and I got a bit more HP (85.4) and Torque (96.31). The issue is the engine is having starting and pinging issues. Mechanic got the pinging to a minimum, but I was told the cams are way too big for the high-pressure pistons.
As it stands now, the bike runs quite well when running. However, it kind of chugs when trying to turn-over - especially when hot. I had to jump start the bike once because it killed the battery. I thought maybe the battery was bad/old, so I replaced it with a brand new one - same issue. I'm no mechanic, but my thinking: the low-pressure cams paired with high-pressure pistons are creating an extra hardship for the starter, and the stock battery doesn't have the amperage to compensate. It actually throws a code when it hard-starts. However, when I jumped the bike, it turned over easily and immediately.
So here's my question to you helpful people: Should I invest in new cams/labor/tune which will probably cost around $1,500 and "maybe" fix the issue? Or should I just pack along a jump-pack in case I kill the battery again?
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 14,070
Likes: 11,093
From: San Diego, CA
I have an '03 Heritage, HD 95" big bore kit (same pistons as yours) with SE203 cams, SE Air cleaner, and Vance & Hines Big Shots. It ran great with the HD stage III download. I then got a powervision tuner and changed the tune with help from DynoJet. It now runs even better....
While the '03 EFI runs in open loop, it should have adjusted for a 4800 ft altitude change. Mine is tuned/run at sea level here in San Diego. I've gone to Yosemite via Tioga Pass (10K feet) and the bike ran flawlessly. Are you sure there isn't another issue?
I have no experience with the cams you have, but my set-up, same as yours except for cam, has always run well.... so barring an exhaust leak, and intake leak, bad tune, or other problem... I would lean towards the cams....
Have the cam tensioners been addressed yet? If not, great excuse to change the cams, to a conversion cam, to get the '07+ cam plate with hydraulic tensioners. Kill two birds with one stone if you will...
Good luck...
While the '03 EFI runs in open loop, it should have adjusted for a 4800 ft altitude change. Mine is tuned/run at sea level here in San Diego. I've gone to Yosemite via Tioga Pass (10K feet) and the bike ran flawlessly. Are you sure there isn't another issue?
I have no experience with the cams you have, but my set-up, same as yours except for cam, has always run well.... so barring an exhaust leak, and intake leak, bad tune, or other problem... I would lean towards the cams....
Have the cam tensioners been addressed yet? If not, great excuse to change the cams, to a conversion cam, to get the '07+ cam plate with hydraulic tensioners. Kill two birds with one stone if you will...
Good luck...
Last edited by hattitude; Dec 3, 2017 at 06:59 PM.
Thread Starter
|
Stage II
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
From: Washington
I've heard of the cam tensioner issue, and I believe the new cams also replaced the tensioners, so I'm good there.
The Thunder Header exhaust doesn't have O2 sensor plugs, so effectively the bike has been modified to a closed-loop EFI. I could put a different exhaust on with O2 sensors, but the Thunder Header sounds amazing and provides a good performance boost. It's fine for short trips with elevation changes (just like a carb bike), but anything long-term it does suck I need to re-tune.
As far as my main issue, I think it boils down to the cams being too big for the high-compression pistons. This puts extra strain on the starter, which in turn tries to draw more current from the battery. If all I had to do was replace cams, my step-dad could actually help install them and it wouldn't be a big problem. I just don't want to spend all the extra $$ having the bike re-tuned if it doesn't fix the problem. Plus, smaller cams would probably reduce the performance.
It's my first Harley, so my main concern is just not blowing it up When its running, it runs great. I'm just a bit worried about getting stranded if it fails to start. I think having a jump-pack on hand will be a good short-term fix though.
The Thunder Header exhaust doesn't have O2 sensor plugs, so effectively the bike has been modified to a closed-loop EFI. I could put a different exhaust on with O2 sensors, but the Thunder Header sounds amazing and provides a good performance boost. It's fine for short trips with elevation changes (just like a carb bike), but anything long-term it does suck I need to re-tune.
As far as my main issue, I think it boils down to the cams being too big for the high-compression pistons. This puts extra strain on the starter, which in turn tries to draw more current from the battery. If all I had to do was replace cams, my step-dad could actually help install them and it wouldn't be a big problem. I just don't want to spend all the extra $$ having the bike re-tuned if it doesn't fix the problem. Plus, smaller cams would probably reduce the performance.
It's my first Harley, so my main concern is just not blowing it up
When its running, it runs great. I'm just a bit worried about getting stranded if it fails to start. I think having a jump-pack on hand will be a good short-term fix though.
Road Master
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,129
Likes: 505
From: Illinois
Have you considered replacing the battery to starter cable with a thicker (lower gauge) cable? You say that "However, when I jumped the bike, it turned over easily and immediately." which makes me think that it may be something with the amperage reaching the starter. I would also clean the ground contacts between the battery's negative cable and the frame. it won't cost you anything but a few minutes of your time.
The bike is almost 15 years old, so why not try something this simple and inexpensive before spending big bucks inside the engine? It may end up being the cams after all, but imagine if after working on the cams it ends up being this? you won't be too happy with yourself :-)
The bike is almost 15 years old, so why not try something this simple and inexpensive before spending big bucks inside the engine? It may end up being the cams after all, but imagine if after working on the cams it ends up being this? you won't be too happy with yourself :-)
Last edited by Labrador; Dec 3, 2017 at 08:16 PM.
Club Member
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 22,840
Likes: 17,866
From: Lafayette, Louisiana
What octane is the gas you are running? What spark plugs?
Things that cause pinging:
Low octane gas
Spark plugs too hot of heat range
Ignition timing too far advanced
Air fuel mixture too lean
Running in too high of a gear for the speed you are going (lugging it)
High compression exacerbates all of the above factors
My advice? Retune the bike to be slightly richer and a little less spark advance. Run the highest octane gas you can find. For some reason I find Shell Premium runs a bit better in high compression engines, but as long as you are 91 octane or higher then you are fine.
Replace both battery cables with heavy gauge cables. Sumax makes very good cables. I have them on my high compression Evo.
If it seems like there is a lot of heat coming off of your engine, consider a pair of fans like love jugs since Wardâs is out of business. Excessive engine heat can contribute to pinging even though it is not really the cause.
Things that cause pinging:
Low octane gas
Spark plugs too hot of heat range
Ignition timing too far advanced
Air fuel mixture too lean
Running in too high of a gear for the speed you are going (lugging it)
High compression exacerbates all of the above factors
My advice? Retune the bike to be slightly richer and a little less spark advance. Run the highest octane gas you can find. For some reason I find Shell Premium runs a bit better in high compression engines, but as long as you are 91 octane or higher then you are fine.
Replace both battery cables with heavy gauge cables. Sumax makes very good cables. I have them on my high compression Evo.
If it seems like there is a lot of heat coming off of your engine, consider a pair of fans like love jugs since Wardâs is out of business. Excessive engine heat can contribute to pinging even though it is not really the cause.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 14,070
Likes: 11,093
From: San Diego, CA
The Thunder Header exhaust doesn't have O2 sensor plugs, so effectively the bike has been modified to a closed-loop EFI. I could put a different exhaust on with O2 sensors, but the Thunder Header sounds amazing and provides a good performance boost. It's fine for short trips with elevation changes (just like a carb bike), but anything long-term it does suck I need to re-tune.
Your OEM ECM can't run closed loop. If you wanted to add O2 sensors, you would need a different ECM or an add-on like DynoJet's Target Tune ..
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Prairiedawggeo
General Harley Davidson Chat
4
Oct 9, 2012 06:13 PM
