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Just because the OD of the tubing is the same doesn't mean the wall thickness is the same.
On bolts, the terms "really high quality" etc are not very accurate. You probably want grade 5. Grade 8 are stronger but less ductile. Then you can get into AN bolts.. You need to be a bit more specific.
Grading of fasteners and usage is a whole larger discussion.
Just because the OD of the tubing is the same doesn't mean the wall thickness is the same.
On bolts, the terms "really high quality" etc are not very accurate. You probably want grade 5. Grade 8 are stronger but less ductile. Then you can get into AN bolts.. You need to be a bit more specific.
Grading of fasteners and usage is a whole larger discussion.
yeah, I had hoped to compare weights of the HD and aftermarket engine guards, but the aftermarket spec gives a 12.67 lb weight without specifying if that is the engine guard itself only OR includes the packaging. HD does not publish the weight of theirs at all.
Yes, bolt grades are a very technical topic on their own. I know very little about the specifics. I just know that I don't want bolts that will shear very easily under load, nor do I want them to be so strong they transfer too much force to the frame. Your recommendation of grade 5 is appreciated!
FWIW.... my comments were made tongue-in-cheek. That's why I put the smiley face after it...
"Oh, and I love how you called that x-mas tree plug a "plug worth pennies"....
While you are most likely correct on its cost/value.... that part is #10040 Xmas-Tree Clip @ $2.13 each, from your dealer.....
Luckily, you can get a 146 piece assortment of those clips for $9.89 from Amazon.... but then your bike will no longer be OEM...
I wonder if an aftermarket clip would void your warranty.. "
I intended them to be amusing, I wasn't making a serious commentary on warranty requirements or the quality of HD supplied parts...
I often crack myself up, yet others don't think I'm as funny as I do...
Last edited by hattitude; Feb 15, 2024 at 08:55 AM.
FWIW.... my comments were made tongue-in-cheek. That's why I put the smiley face after it...
"Oh, and I love how you called that x-mas tree plug a "plug worth pennies"....
While you are most likely correct on its cost/value.... that part is #10040 Xmas-Tree Clip @ $2.13 each, from your dealer.....
Luckily, you can get a 146 piece assortment of those clips for $9.89 from Amazon.... but then your bike will no longer be OEM...
I wonder if an aftermarket clip would void your warranty.. "
I intended them to be amusing, I wasn't making a serious commentary on warranty requirements or the quality of HD supplied parts...
I often crack myself up, yet others don't think I'm as funny as I do...
I got that it was intended as humor, but wanted to show foranyone else's benefit, how much of a premium we pay for genuine hD sometimes, and how it maybe should not be a knee jerk reaction to "buy genuine HD". A lot of HD's offerings are high quality and sometimes unique, but sometimes an aftermarket product can be better, or less costly, or unique, or all 3.
FYI. This HD engine guard fits your Breakout.
The instructions show the service part numbers.
According to HD's hardware list, the top screw (856A) is Grade 8.
The hardware list doesn't specify the grade for the bottom screws (4188).
I used to use a curved pick on them. Long as you don't plan on reusing them. Curved pick, work it under the edge of the head and then jam the point into the plastic and pry and it should come out. I got tired of bending/breaking the pick from time to time though so grabbed one of these: https://www.harborfreight.com/panel-...ers-63699.html
In using the, I find they either work perfect, or not at all. I've never had an in between. Either it pulls the clip out as it should, or it rips the plastic head off.
If it works, great. If it rips the head off? Well, long as you've got access to the backside of the hole, popping it out with a dowel is still an option. Only now, without the head you can do it from either side.
FYI. This HD engine guard fits your Breakout.
The instructions show the service part numbers.
According to HD's hardware list, the top screw (856A) is Grade 8.
The hardware list doesn't specify the grade for the bottom screws (4188).
Thank-you!! I know why HD only spcicifed the grade for the top bolt: it's the only one that really gets highly stressed. The bottom bolts are each at a point where the end of the engine guard BUTTS against the frame, within a recessed area, so its a pure compressive load that the bar can handle without help from the bottom bolt. Each bottom bolt simply makes sure the bar is LOCATED properly when the impact comes.
The top bolt is very different. Up there, the bar will try to shift SIDEWAYS when it hits the ground. There is NO frame material that it can push into. It will instead try to SLIDE SIDEWAYS away from the impact. That means that the top bolt has to be able to absorb the entire top impact by itself, and it will experience an almost purely SHEAR force, not a compression force. THAT's why that bolt needs to be much stronger, and apparently needs a Grade 8 rating. So, I will buy a Grade 8 bolt to replace the top bolt in the aftermarket engine guard.
Thanks for taking the time to look this up. I really appreciate it.
I used to use a curved pick on them. Long as you don't plan on reusing them. Curved pick, work it under the edge of the head and then jam the point into the plastic and pry and it should come out. I got tired of bending/breaking the pick from time to time though so grabbed one of these: https://www.harborfreight.com/panel-...ers-63699.html
In using the, I find they either work perfect, or not at all. I've never had an in between. Either it pulls the clip out as it should, or it rips the plastic head off.
If it works, great. If it rips the head off? Well, long as you've got access to the backside of the hole, popping it out with a dowel is still an option. Only now, without the head you can do it from either side.
Thank-you! After breaking the head off the plug, being able to push the pin from either side is a BIG plus! This is because it might be very hard to get a good shot at the body of the plug with a dowel from the INSIDE of the frame, but it is dead easy from the outside. So, I think I will try using a pick to pull the plugs out, and if one or both break their heads off instead, I'll push them INward using a wood dowel and light hammer.
I'll bet the designer who specified the use of these pkugs in those 2 locations did not stop to think about how hard they might be to remove on a fully assembled motorcycle versus a bare frame!
Thank-you!! I know why HD only spcicifed the grade for the top bolt: it's the only one that really gets highly stressed. The bottom bolts are each at a point where the end of the engine guard BUTTS against the frame, within a recessed area, so its a pure compressive load that the bar can handle without help from the bottom bolt. Each bottom bolt simply makes sure the bar is LOCATED properly when the impact comes.
The top bolt is very different. Up there, the bar will try to shift SIDEWAYS when it hits the ground. There is NO frame material that it can push into. It will instead try to SLIDE SIDEWAYS away from the impact. That means that the top bolt has to be able to absorb the entire top impact by itself, and it will experience an almost purely SHEAR force, not a compression force. THAT's why that bolt needs to be much stronger, and apparently needs a Grade 8 rating. So, I will buy a Grade 8 bolt to replace the top bolt in the aftermarket engine guard.
Thanks for taking the time to look this up. I really appreciate it.
Jim G
If you want to verify the grade of the bottom screws, take a look at the heads of the screws used on your mid engine mount. They are the same part number.
A grade 5 button head torx screw will have 3 equally spaced lines embossed in the head. A grade 8 will have 6 lines.
Below is an image of a HD grade 8 button head torx screw. Because the angle of the pic isn't head on, only 4 of the 6 equally spaced lines are visible.
If you want to verify the grade of the bottom screws, take a look at the heads of the screws used on your mid engine mount. They are the same part number.
A grade 5 button head torx screw will have 3 equally spaced lines embossed in the head. A grade 8 will have 6 lines.
Below is an image of a HD grade 8 button head torx screw. Because the angle of the pic isn't head on, only 4 of the 6 equally spaced lines are visible.
Which screw is the one to look at in th "mid-engine mount"?
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