Harley will close five plants for a week
Road Warrior
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,727
Likes: 2
From: North Carolina
RE: Harley will close five plants for a week
ORIGINAL: Bikenator
Agree with most of what you've wrote, but disagree and take offense to that POS T shirt.
Indigenous, nomadic tribal groups on this continent didn't "own it, they were using it. To say
or imply they had rights of ownership is akin to saying the Bedouins "own" the Saharah.
They had no rights of ownership, they merely used it, as did others.
Many American tribes didn't like the way the early settlers "used/abused" what they considered
their land (as though it was owned by them to begin with). This caused many bloody battles, treachery
on both sides was rampant. In the end, the indigentsgot their *** kicked. End of story. Dissing either
sideover ancient history andinferring that my ancestors were "terrorists" really pisses me off.
ORIGINAL: doc_cj
Item 1 -- The plant closings were part of the contract negotiations last year. The "union" went on strike to earn the right to be shut down this year. So it ain't a real surprise.
Item 2 -- Stocks hit a record high twice this year, so the economy ain't hurting too bad. Yeah, house sales are down, but when the economy is put into perspective it is as strong as it was in 1952.
Item 3 -- Yep, Harley has seen similar slow downs. How about the period from 1956-59? My recollection of the Harley history is that the Panheads were not selling so well by '57, and that's why they went with the actuated rear and next model Hydra Glide. Market changes usually bring innovation and new models ... same as '07 and '08.
Item last ... and this one is going to be fun ...
Okay, just for grins ... let's define "american." My ancestors were originally in Florida and were marched by you white union workers (those in the blue army uniforms, mind you) to Oklahoma. Does that mean you're going to send all your business to the reservations? Or will you continue to buy from those overseas bassards who came from Europe and stole our land? 
Item 1 -- The plant closings were part of the contract negotiations last year. The "union" went on strike to earn the right to be shut down this year. So it ain't a real surprise.
Item 2 -- Stocks hit a record high twice this year, so the economy ain't hurting too bad. Yeah, house sales are down, but when the economy is put into perspective it is as strong as it was in 1952.
Item 3 -- Yep, Harley has seen similar slow downs. How about the period from 1956-59? My recollection of the Harley history is that the Panheads were not selling so well by '57, and that's why they went with the actuated rear and next model Hydra Glide. Market changes usually bring innovation and new models ... same as '07 and '08.
Item last ... and this one is going to be fun ...
ORIGINAL: voyager1
But we need to buy and be american as much as we can.
But we need to buy and be american as much as we can.
Indigenous, nomadic tribal groups on this continent didn't "own it, they were using it. To say
or imply they had rights of ownership is akin to saying the Bedouins "own" the Saharah.
They had no rights of ownership, they merely used it, as did others.
Many American tribes didn't like the way the early settlers "used/abused" what they considered
their land (as though it was owned by them to begin with). This caused many bloody battles, treachery
on both sides was rampant. In the end, the indigentsgot their *** kicked. End of story. Dissing either
sideover ancient history andinferring that my ancestors were "terrorists" really pisses me off.
On the other hand settlers fromEurope landed in North America and set up housekeeping. They grew crops and raised domesticated animals (their inherited culture and society) and used the same principals of "squatter's rights" in most cases.
The principal source of conflict between thePlains Indians and the "whites"( since I'm using this group of native Americans as an example) was due to the lack of respect shown to the food resources........the "whites" rampantly killed buffalo, almost to the point of extinction, for nothing more than their hides,with no regard to the impact it had on food resources for the Indians. The Indians fought back to save their way of life.
It seems to me (and I have both native American and European ancestry) that the settlers had no more rights to ownership to the land than those that had already occupied it for centuries. It was never bought or paid for (except for some land purchases by the US gov't much later, from "owners" who were in a position to not give it up without consequences)and as such could not be claimed
Club Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 463
Likes: 1
From: in a trailer next to a ditch in South Florida
RE: Harley will close five plants for a week
ORIGINAL: sportncruise
What constitutes ownership of land? When the settlers came it was simply going out and building a house on it or such and it was considered theirs. Just because the settlers didn't see the indians claim as ligit doesn't mean they were right. In the end strength in numbers won out and that still didn't make it right just how it ended up.
If someone stronger came in and took us out now and made it their country our laws wouldn't mean crap either. GET A GRIP!
ORIGINAL: Bikenator
Agree with most of what you've wrote, but disagree and take offense to that POS T shirt.
Indigenous, nomadic tribal groups on this continent didn't "own it, they were using it. To say
or imply they had rights of ownership is akin to saying the Bedouins "own" the Saharah.
They had no rights of ownership, they merely used it, as did others.
Many American tribes didn't like the way the early settlers "used/abused" what they considered
their land (as though it was owned by them to begin with). This caused many bloody battles, treachery
on both sides was rampant. In the end, the indigentsgot their *** kicked. End of story. Dissing either
sideover ancient history andinferring that my ancestors were "terrorists" really pisses me off.
ORIGINAL: doc_cj
Item 1 -- The plant closings were part of the contract negotiations last year. The "union" went on strike to earn the right to be shut down this year. So it ain't a real surprise.
Item 2 -- Stocks hit a record high twice this year, so the economy ain't hurting too bad. Yeah, house sales are down, but when the economy is put into perspective it is as strong as it was in 1952.
Item 3 -- Yep, Harley has seen similar slow downs. How about the period from 1956-59? My recollection of the Harley history is that the Panheads were not selling so well by '57, and that's why they went with the actuated rear and next model Hydra Glide. Market changes usually bring innovation and new models ... same as '07 and '08.
Item last ... and this one is going to be fun ...
Okay, just for grins ... let's define "american." My ancestors were originally in Florida and were marched by you white union workers (those in the blue army uniforms, mind you) to Oklahoma. Does that mean you're going to send all your business to the reservations? Or will you continue to buy from those overseas bassards who came from Europe and stole our land?
Item 1 -- The plant closings were part of the contract negotiations last year. The "union" went on strike to earn the right to be shut down this year. So it ain't a real surprise.
Item 2 -- Stocks hit a record high twice this year, so the economy ain't hurting too bad. Yeah, house sales are down, but when the economy is put into perspective it is as strong as it was in 1952.
Item 3 -- Yep, Harley has seen similar slow downs. How about the period from 1956-59? My recollection of the Harley history is that the Panheads were not selling so well by '57, and that's why they went with the actuated rear and next model Hydra Glide. Market changes usually bring innovation and new models ... same as '07 and '08.
Item last ... and this one is going to be fun ...
ORIGINAL: voyager1
But we need to buy and be american as much as we can.
But we need to buy and be american as much as we can.
Indigenous, nomadic tribal groups on this continent didn't "own it, they were using it. To say
or imply they had rights of ownership is akin to saying the Bedouins "own" the Saharah.
They had no rights of ownership, they merely used it, as did others.
Many American tribes didn't like the way the early settlers "used/abused" what they considered
their land (as though it was owned by them to begin with). This caused many bloody battles, treachery
on both sides was rampant. In the end, the indigentsgot their *** kicked. End of story. Dissing either
sideover ancient history andinferring that my ancestors were "terrorists" really pisses me off.
If someone stronger came in and took us out now and made it their country our laws wouldn't mean crap either. GET A GRIP!
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ownership
[*]The right to possess and use property to the exclusion of others.
www.americantitleco.biz/glossary.html
Here's a couple of definitions...note the use of the word "exclusive".
No one had exclusive use of this land back then. The Indians claims
to the contrary were not "legit" by any reasonable definition. They
did not have the exclusive rightto exclude others from sea to shining sea,
contrary to what some apologists seem to think. Bitchin, moaning and calling
the early pioneers and settlers of this nation "terrorists" does notv
Road Warrior
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,727
Likes: 2
From: North Carolina
RE: Harley will close five plants for a week
[quote]ORIGINAL: Bikenator
[*]Ownership is the state or fact of exclusive possession or control of property, which may be an object, land/real estate, intellectual property or some other kind of property. It is embodied in an ownership right also referred to as title.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ownership[*]The right to possess and use property to the exclusion of others.
www.americantitleco.biz/glossary.html
Here's a couple of definitions...note the use of the word "exclusive".
No one had exclusive use of this land back then. The Indians claims
to the contrary were not "legit" by any reasonable definition. They
did not have the exclusive rightto exclude others from sea to shining sea,
contrary to what some apologists seem to think. Bitchin, moaning and calling
the early pioneers and settlers of this nation "terro
ORIGINAL: sportncruise
What constitutes ownership of land? When the settlers came it was simply going out and building a house on it or such and it was considered theirs. Just because the settlers didn't see the indians claim as ligit doesn't mean they were right. In the end strength in numbers won out and that still didn't make it right just how it ended up.
If someone stronger came in and took us out now and made it their country our laws wouldn't mean crap either. GET A GRIP!
ORIGINAL: Bikenator
Agree with most of what you've wrote, but disagree and take offense to that POS T shirt.
Indigenous, nomadic tribal groups on this continent didn't "own it, they were using it. To say
or imply they had rights of ownership is akin to saying the Bedouins "own" the Saharah.
They had no rights of ownership, they merely used it, as did others.
Many American tribes didn't like the way the early settlers "used/abused" what they considered
their land (as though it was owned by them to begin with). This caused many bloody battles, treachery
on both sides was rampant. In the end, the indigentsgot their *** kicked. End of story. Dissing either
sideover ancient history andinferring that my ancestors were "terrorists" really pisses me off.
ORIGINAL: doc_cj
Item 1 -- The plant closings were part of the contract negotiations last year. The "union" went on strike to earn the right to be shut down this year. So it ain't a real surprise.
Item 2 -- Stocks hit a record high twice this year, so the economy ain't hurting too bad. Yeah, house sales are down, but when the economy is put into perspective it is as strong as it was in 1952.
Item 3 -- Yep, Harley has seen similar slow downs. How about the period from 1956-59? My recollection of the Harley history is that the Panheads were not selling so well by '57, and that's why they went with the actuated rear and next model Hydra Glide. Market changes usually bring innovation and new models ... same as '07 and '08.
Item last ... and this one is going to be fun ...
Okay, just for grins ... let's define "american." My ancestors were originally in Florida and were marched by you white union workers (those in the blue army uniforms, mind you) to Oklahoma. Does that mean you're going to send all your business to the reservations? Or will you continue to buy from those overseas bassards who came from Europe and stole our land?
Item 1 -- The plant closings were part of the contract negotiations last year. The "union" went on strike to earn the right to be shut down this year. So it ain't a real surprise.
Item 2 -- Stocks hit a record high twice this year, so the economy ain't hurting too bad. Yeah, house sales are down, but when the economy is put into perspective it is as strong as it was in 1952.
Item 3 -- Yep, Harley has seen similar slow downs. How about the period from 1956-59? My recollection of the Harley history is that the Panheads were not selling so well by '57, and that's why they went with the actuated rear and next model Hydra Glide. Market changes usually bring innovation and new models ... same as '07 and '08.
Item last ... and this one is going to be fun ...
ORIGINAL: voyager1
But we need to buy and be american as much as we can.
But we need to buy and be american as much as we can.
Indigenous, nomadic tribal groups on this continent didn't "own it, they were using it. To say
or imply they had rights of ownership is akin to saying the Bedouins "own" the Saharah.
They had no rights of ownership, they merely used it, as did others.
Many American tribes didn't like the way the early settlers "used/abused" what they considered
their land (as though it was owned by them to begin with). This caused many bloody battles, treachery
on both sides was rampant. In the end, the indigentsgot their *** kicked. End of story. Dissing either
sideover ancient history andinferring that my ancestors were "terrorists" really pisses me off.
If someone stronger came in and took us out now and made it their country our laws wouldn't mean crap either. GET A GRIP!
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ownership[*]The right to possess and use property to the exclusion of others.
www.americantitleco.biz/glossary.html
Here's a couple of definitions...note the use of the word "exclusive".
No one had exclusive use of this land back then. The Indians claims
to the contrary were not "legit" by any reasonable definition. They
did not have the exclusive rightto exclude others from sea to shining sea,
contrary to what some apologists seem to think. Bitchin, moaning and calling
the early pioneers and settlers of this nation "terro
Club Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 463
Likes: 1
From: in a trailer next to a ditch in South Florida
RE: Harley will close five plants for a week
mojojones,
this will be my last post on this subject as I really
never intended to hijack the original thread.
My first post:
was to object to that POS T shirt equating early Americans with Al qaeda.
I clearly indicated that there was treachery on both sides...Iadmitted
up front that the settlers were far from blameless. I have and will continue to
"deal" with that. There was plenty of shame to go around on both sides.
My misuse of the term indigent...I meant to use indigenous. My bad.
Plains Indians were warrior/hunter/gatherers...that could not have gone on
with an expanding population surrounding them for much longer. Not trying
to justify the wars, just wondering if they would have assimilated eventually.
On the HD stock...thanks for "buying American".
this will be my last post on this subject as I really
never intended to hijack the original thread.
My first post:
was to object to that POS T shirt equating early Americans with Al qaeda.
I clearly indicated that there was treachery on both sides...Iadmitted
up front that the settlers were far from blameless. I have and will continue to
"deal" with that. There was plenty of shame to go around on both sides.
My misuse of the term indigent...I meant to use indigenous. My bad.
Plains Indians were warrior/hunter/gatherers...that could not have gone on
with an expanding population surrounding them for much longer. Not trying
to justify the wars, just wondering if they would have assimilated eventually.
On the HD stock...thanks for "buying American".
Road Warrior
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,727
Likes: 2
From: North Carolina
RE: Harley will close five plants for a week
ORIGINAL: Bikenator
mojojones,
this will be my last post on this subject as I really
never intended to hijack the original thread.
My first post:
was to object to that POS T shirt equating early Americans with Al qaeda.
I clearly indicated that there was treachery on both sides...Iadmitted
up front that the settlers were far from blameless. I have and will continue to
"deal" with that. There was plenty of shame to go around on both sides.
My misuse of the term indigent...I meant to use indigenous. My bad.
Plains Indians were warrior/hunter/gatherers...that could not have gone on
with an expanding population surrounding them for much longer. Not trying
to justify the wars, just wondering if they would have assimilated eventually.
On the HD stock...thanks for "buying American".
mojojones,
this will be my last post on this subject as I really
never intended to hijack the original thread.
My first post:
was to object to that POS T shirt equating early Americans with Al qaeda.
I clearly indicated that there was treachery on both sides...Iadmitted
up front that the settlers were far from blameless. I have and will continue to
"deal" with that. There was plenty of shame to go around on both sides.
My misuse of the term indigent...I meant to use indigenous. My bad.
Plains Indians were warrior/hunter/gatherers...that could not have gone on
with an expanding population surrounding them for much longer. Not trying
to justify the wars, just wondering if they would have assimilated eventually.
On the HD stock...thanks for "buying American".
[sm=deal.gif]
I've always enjoyed a good debate!
I will still be willing to discuss boobies....................[sm=happy046.gif]
Stage IV
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
RE: Harley will close five plants for a week
First, wow. Im going to steer clear of the whole native american/settler thing, as i think its a bit out of my league. I really only have one thing to say and that is, there is really no self sustaining economy. Therefore, buying american vs buying japanese is kind of a moot point. If the American economy collapses, the whole worlds economy would take a huge hit. All countries are so intertwined economically that it really makes no difference. Other national governments are invested heavily in american traded companies. But those are just my thoughts on the subject.
HD Forum Stories
The Best of Harley-Davidson for Lifelong Riders
7 Surprising Harley-Davidson Products that Are Not Motorcycles
Verdad Gallardo
8 Best Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Ever
Pouria Savadkouei
10 Worst Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Ever
Pouria Savadkouei
Killer Custom's Jail Break Is The Breakout That Refused to Blend In
Verdad Gallardo
Crazy Bunderbike Build Looks Amazing, But Is It Impossible to Ride?
Verdad Gallardo
Harley-Davidson Reveals Super Cool Cafe Racer Concept
Verdad Gallardo
Engraved Rebellion: Inside Bundnerbike's Glam Rock II
Verdad Gallardo
10 Motorcycles You Should Never Buy
Joe Kucinski
10 Things Harley-Davidson Needs to Fix in 2026
Verdad Gallardo
Thread Starter
|
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,432
Likes: 0
From: SW Ohio
RE: Harley will close five plants for a week
Homeland secutity !!!! LOL ... I don't even know wtf that shirt means!
Actually, stuff like that... somebody just trolling. If people want to get
bent about something, they should get bent about the very real possibility
('threat' would be a better word) of Hildy Clinton becoming President.
Actually, stuff like that... somebody just trolling. If people want to get
bent about something, they should get bent about the very real possibility
('threat' would be a better word) of Hildy Clinton becoming President.