is this true?
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Cruiser
Joined: Sep 2007
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From: independence mo
is this true?
Harley says the new fuel-injection system, which is equipped with an oxygen sensor to adjust to changing conditions, meets or exceeds regulatory requirements in all markets. A Stage One kit can be fitted to the 2007 Harleys and the fuel-injection system will automatically adjust to match.
May our Moderator Rest in Peace
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,386
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From: Rochester, NY
RE: is this true?
No its not 'exactly' true. The O2 sensor used on Harley's is more of a "Go/Nogo" gauge than an active feed back element in the emissions system. Its used by the ECM to tell it if it is operating with the factory design specifications. If the ECM is putting too much fuel into the engine or too little the ECM will not adjust it outside of a VERY narrow range. It will just start yelling "Check Engine" and turn on theidiot light on the speedo.
If you add a Stage 1 AC and pipes it "may" or "may not" fire up the light, but the odds are that it will, and worse yet will start frying things (like thevalves and pistions) from running even leaner than the factory settings call for.
If you add a Stage 1 AC and pipes it "may" or "may not" fire up the light, but the odds are that it will, and worse yet will start frying things (like thevalves and pistions) from running even leaner than the factory settings call for.
Banned Camp
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,176
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From: Simpsonville, SC
RE: is this true?
ORIGINAL: Citoriplus
No its not 'exactly' true. The O2 sensor used on Harley's is more of a "Go/Nogo" gauge than an active feed back element in the emissions system. Its used by the ECM to tell it if it is operating with the factory design specifications. If the ECM is putting too much fuel into the engine or too little the ECM will not adjust it outside of a VERY narrow range. It will just start yelling "Check Engine" and turn on theidiot light on the speedo.
If you add a Stage 1 AC and pipes it "may" or "may not" fire up the light, but the odds are that it will, and worse yet will start frying things (like thevalves and pistions) from running even leaner than the factory settings call for.
No its not 'exactly' true. The O2 sensor used on Harley's is more of a "Go/Nogo" gauge than an active feed back element in the emissions system. Its used by the ECM to tell it if it is operating with the factory design specifications. If the ECM is putting too much fuel into the engine or too little the ECM will not adjust it outside of a VERY narrow range. It will just start yelling "Check Engine" and turn on theidiot light on the speedo.
If you add a Stage 1 AC and pipes it "may" or "may not" fire up the light, but the odds are that it will, and worse yet will start frying things (like thevalves and pistions) from running even leaner than the factory settings call for.
If you're going to do a Stage 1, you need to change the fuel management (whether that be a dealer download or one of the other fuel management systems). If you don't, you're taking a big risk.
Intermediate
Joined: Feb 2007
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From:
RE: is this true?
This question has been brought of many times. No remapping required if it is slip ons (in most cases). But if you are changing theAC with the exhaust, yes remapping is required. Below I have added a couple messages from last year on the FXSTC's. Citoriplus was talking about slip on exhaust.
(Citoriplus)Not always, some (if not most) bikes can get away with it. Its when you change the AC AND the exhaust that it becomes manditory.
The 'stock' map ASSUMES X amount of air coming in and getting out, and has fuel and timing tables to take care of that. When you change the exhaust, it might let air get out easier, but without 'fixing' the intake (new freer breathing AC) the engine is still can onlysuck in just so much air.
In other words it may breath out better, but its still got a choker chain on the intake side, so in many, if not most cases the stock maps are still valid.
But a word of caution, when you do change something, even if its justslip on's, you should be checking the plugs oftenafterwards for any signs of running lean. At least until your satified that everthing is still OK. [/align][/align][/align](Tex)The new FXSTC has a oxygen sensor in the exhaust that tells the EFI where to set the timing. But as Citoriplus stated, if you change the AC with the exhaust, it is a must to remap. I know this is the case with screaming eagles, not sure about Rush or any others.
[/align]
(Citoriplus)Not always, some (if not most) bikes can get away with it. Its when you change the AC AND the exhaust that it becomes manditory.
The 'stock' map ASSUMES X amount of air coming in and getting out, and has fuel and timing tables to take care of that. When you change the exhaust, it might let air get out easier, but without 'fixing' the intake (new freer breathing AC) the engine is still can onlysuck in just so much air.
In other words it may breath out better, but its still got a choker chain on the intake side, so in many, if not most cases the stock maps are still valid.
But a word of caution, when you do change something, even if its justslip on's, you should be checking the plugs oftenafterwards for any signs of running lean. At least until your satified that everthing is still OK. [/align][/align][/align](Tex)The new FXSTC has a oxygen sensor in the exhaust that tells the EFI where to set the timing. But as Citoriplus stated, if you change the AC with the exhaust, it is a must to remap. I know this is the case with screaming eagles, not sure about Rush or any others.
[/align]
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 7,217
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From: Southern Ohio
RE: is this true?
Can't add any more to that...I know some good wrenches and tech's who've always told me that if a dealer tells you can make any StageI changes and that you don't need a fuel management system of some kind to keep from frying that engine, you need to run like hell...
Road Captain
Joined: Dec 2007
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From: Melbourne, Florida
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Cruiser
Joined: Sep 2007
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From: independence mo
RE: is this true?
this was in a ama revrue. i am with you people. but just wondered? i have allso herd that harley dose not have a sert for 2007 08s just makes you wonder who you can trust for ansers? i just bought this bike had a sproty 07 stage 1 before.only 100 mi on this,Picked up fri still cold in mo. i allso have a problem Kind hard to start real rich,black smoke,i dont like that.what do you think? thanks Dee
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,386
Likes: 35
From: Rochester, NY
RE: is this true?
There has bee an SERT version for the 07's since at least Nov of 06 so I don't know where that came from.
If you bike is putting out a lot of black smoke (fuel rich) something its not right and first thing "I" would do is pull off the AC cover and check out the filter. If it looks good, not wet, or covered in crap, you need to have the dealer check it out. Its really too new for that kind of problem to appear.
If you bike is putting out a lot of black smoke (fuel rich) something its not right and first thing "I" would do is pull off the AC cover and check out the filter. If it looks good, not wet, or covered in crap, you need to have the dealer check it out. Its really too new for that kind of problem to appear.
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Cruiser
Joined: Sep 2007
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From: independence mo
RE: is this true?
that is what i thought thanks for replaying. i am not to woryed sence i just got just kind of a pain having to take back. i like the bike it ride like a dream.like i said i rode all day sat no problem. probley not much. i hope. thanks again Dee