Softail motor?
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 11,068
Likes: 1,473
From: Texas! Ya mean there's someplace else?
RE: Softail motor?
Hey BClem, tell us what you really think about the Twinkie B! Whaddya think about the supposedly non-repairable/replaceable left side bearing?
One thing HD always had going for it was the ability to rebuild even the worst blown-up motor over and over again. Now it seems they are moving into the throw-away realm. Sure makes me appreciate S&S.
Wouldn't mind hearing some more on Feuling. That 3 cylinder he came up with is pretty slick.
One thing HD always had going for it was the ability to rebuild even the worst blown-up motor over and over again. Now it seems they are moving into the throw-away realm. Sure makes me appreciate S&S.
Wouldn't mind hearing some more on Feuling. That 3 cylinder he came up with is pretty slick.
Cruiser
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 190
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From: Australia
RE: Softail motor?
ORIGINAL: Tn.Heritage
You know I don't feel there is anything wrong with the 88b engine,grant it if you want to raise hell you will be better off with the gear drive cam's,but if they were so bad why would they build a 103 inch SE engine in the Fatboy or the Duece. Personally I think I made a good choice,but the decision is your's. This is just my opinion and not trying to step on toe's.[sm=smiley4.gif]
You know I don't feel there is anything wrong with the 88b engine,grant it if you want to raise hell you will be better off with the gear drive cam's,but if they were so bad why would they build a 103 inch SE engine in the Fatboy or the Duece. Personally I think I made a good choice,but the decision is your's. This is just my opinion and not trying to step on toe's.[sm=smiley4.gif]
Tourer
Joined: Jan 2005
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From:
RE: Softail motor?
my brother has a 03 softtail and he has had it about 1yr and 6months.....he has about 23,000 miles on it now.....he has had no problems with it so far....those are alot of miles in a short time.....he does his own oil changes and makes sure everything is in good shape....he is looking for alot of miles out of this bike.
Cruiser
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 190
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From: Australia
RE: Softail motor?
BClem
Obviously you know alot more than I do about mechanics (but thats really not that hard considering I am a novice).
But can you explain why all the other bikes in the world have frame mounted counterbalanced engines?
Could it be that Harley has realised that some of the old technology is not really worth holding on to? Like rubber mounted engines?
You give the impression that the 88b is an exception but as far I understand it, it's the rule, and the 88 rubber mount is the exception....
Obviously you know alot more than I do about mechanics (but thats really not that hard considering I am a novice).
But can you explain why all the other bikes in the world have frame mounted counterbalanced engines?
Could it be that Harley has realised that some of the old technology is not really worth holding on to? Like rubber mounted engines?
You give the impression that the 88b is an exception but as far I understand it, it's the rule, and the 88 rubber mount is the exception....
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 11,068
Likes: 1,473
From: Texas! Ya mean there's someplace else?
RE: Softail motor?
Ya gotta understand that we're talking about HD. It doesn't matter what every other manufacturer does; for the most part they make Bic-Bikes - flick 'em awhile, then toss 'em away.
One of the draws of an HD has always been the relative simplicity of the engine. With the Twinkie engine and its chain driven cams, things got less simple. Then throw in a counterbalance assembly, and you travel further down the trail to complexity. Now toss in cast-in main bearing races, and you've got an engine that'll probably end up on the scrap heap instead of being rebuilt forever as the older motors seem to be.
Sometimes progress is good; sometimes it's a two-edged sword.
One of the draws of an HD has always been the relative simplicity of the engine. With the Twinkie engine and its chain driven cams, things got less simple. Then throw in a counterbalance assembly, and you travel further down the trail to complexity. Now toss in cast-in main bearing races, and you've got an engine that'll probably end up on the scrap heap instead of being rebuilt forever as the older motors seem to be.
Sometimes progress is good; sometimes it's a two-edged sword.
Cruiser
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 190
Likes: 0
From: Australia
RE: Softail motor?
Pococj, I thought you might take this one on
I am interested in quality and therefore a bike that will last a long time. I agree that Harley has to find a balance between technology and simplicity. A carby may be simpler than EFI but I prefer EFI. Engine mounts maybe simpler than counterbalancing but I am not yet convinced that a counterbalance assembly is a concern even in the long term.
I think it even remains to be seen what will happen to a modified 88b in the long term and what the options would be if something did go wrong. I do not agree or disagree that modifying an 88b will cause an unsolvable problem - I really would like to read something about it from the horses mouth...HD, and/or some other expert sources, before I decide.
I cannot just take posting on a forum as gospel (as knowledgable as BClem may be). We are talking about Harleys long term reputation here, not just the difference between engine models.
As for your comment about what other bikes are doing (the BIC bikes), I don't agree. If it didnt matter what they were doing HD wouldnt have EFI or hydraulic forks or air shocks or a host of other technology improvements...I think HD has to move with the times albeit carefully and slowly....at least thats what they seem to be doing to me.
I am interested in quality and therefore a bike that will last a long time. I agree that Harley has to find a balance between technology and simplicity. A carby may be simpler than EFI but I prefer EFI. Engine mounts maybe simpler than counterbalancing but I am not yet convinced that a counterbalance assembly is a concern even in the long term.
I think it even remains to be seen what will happen to a modified 88b in the long term and what the options would be if something did go wrong. I do not agree or disagree that modifying an 88b will cause an unsolvable problem - I really would like to read something about it from the horses mouth...HD, and/or some other expert sources, before I decide.
I cannot just take posting on a forum as gospel (as knowledgable as BClem may be). We are talking about Harleys long term reputation here, not just the difference between engine models.
As for your comment about what other bikes are doing (the BIC bikes), I don't agree. If it didnt matter what they were doing HD wouldnt have EFI or hydraulic forks or air shocks or a host of other technology improvements...I think HD has to move with the times albeit carefully and slowly....at least thats what they seem to be doing to me.
Grand HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2004
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From:
RE: Softail motor?
I don't know everything about the 88b engine's but I heard that hard down shifting could be a problem with the chain drive on the cam's and the bearing change that HD did to save $8 on each engine they build but after talking to several dealer's I have not found one who has problem's with the 88b engine. This engine has been around for 4 yrs. now and I no no one who has blew one up,that's not to say it's not happened because it has Im sure but I'LL bet a 88a has exploded also. I've heard from a dealer say that the chain tensioner's are wearing out around 16000 mile's but my dealer said quote(Hell no we haven't had one problem wiyh the tensioner's) un quote,so who do you believe? I took out a 4 yr. warranty so if it break's I'll call them and let HD put in a new engine.
Cruiser
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 201
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From:
RE: Softail motor?
I got the 4 year as well and have taken her in for a major repair and a couple of minor ones on warranty. 36k on her and I'm heading to Alaska in June/July
Carl
Carl
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Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 11,068
Likes: 1,473
From: Texas! Ya mean there's someplace else?
RE: Softail motor?
As for your comment about what other bikes are doing (the BIC bikes), I don't agree. If it didnt matter what they were doing HD wouldnt have EFI or hydraulic forks or air shocks or a host of other technology improvements...I think HD has to move with the times albeit carefully and slowly....at least thats what they seem to be doing to me.
With every change HD is moving away from what I like. My problem, not their's, except it means I won't be buying a new one. And there aren't enough ol' idjits like me that HD has to worry about it. But if they continue with the trend, and their bikes become no different than the various metric cruisers, it will catch up to them some day.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 11,068
Likes: 1,473
From: Texas! Ya mean there's someplace else?
RE: Softail motor?
I got the 4 year as well and have taken her in for a major repair and a couple of minor ones on warranty. 36k on her and I'm heading to Alaska in June/July
Carl
Carl
My '87 FLST has 100k miles on it. Only repairs have been due to previous owner's neglect/mistreatment: Clutch, wheel bearings, neck bearings, the base gaskets, wrong head bolts.
All in all, I can't complain. BTW, the '78 is still on the road with over 300k miles on it. I don't see this happening on a regular basis with a motor that has engineering shortcuts such as cast-in bearing races that are so expensive to repair that its cheaper to throw the cases away and buy new ones.
But I'm an ol' fart, sot in my ways, and see no reason to change. Y'all are just the unlucky sods who get the pleasure of listening to me whine! <VBG>