Softail motor?
Cruiser
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 190
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From: Australia
RE: Softail motor?
ORIGINAL: pococj
You're quite accurate with your statement. I was in a hurry (work crap!) and should've put it this way: I don't care what other manufacturers do. I want a Harley, and I want that HD to be a 45 degree air cooled v-twin. And I want that HD engine to be simple enough to fix alongside the road, and to be completely rebuildable. And I don't want a buncha chrome plated plastic to "purty" it up.
With every change HD is moving away from what I like. My problem, not their's, except it means I won't be buying a new one. And there aren't enough ol' idjits like me that HD has to worry about it. But if they continue with the trend, and their bikes become no different than the various metric cruisers, it will catch up to them some day.
As for your comment about what other bikes are doing (the BIC bikes), I don't agree. If it didnt matter what they were doing HD wouldnt have EFI or hydraulic forks or air shocks or a host of other technology improvements...I think HD has to move with the times albeit carefully and slowly....at least thats what they seem to be doing to me.
With every change HD is moving away from what I like. My problem, not their's, except it means I won't be buying a new one. And there aren't enough ol' idjits like me that HD has to worry about it. But if they continue with the trend, and their bikes become no different than the various metric cruisers, it will catch up to them some day.
I hope you never move away from Harleys but I might if I find any problems with my Herritage - warranty or no warranty. I am expecting a quality bike which means I expect it to last a long time without much trouble. I guess I am going to find out sooner or later...
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 11,068
Likes: 1,470
From: Texas! Ya mean there's someplace else?
RE: Softail motor?
So if the Heritage has problems, whaddya gonna get? Honda Gold Wing with bad welds that cause frame to break in half? Kawasaki Vulcan with oil pump gear failures? I could go on, but I'm sure you get my drift. Any brand might have problems, minor & major. I think you'll be well satisfied, especially with the things like fit & finish. HD seems to be head & shoulders above the metrics in that department. Guess it's 'cause plastic is hard to keep from warping! <VBG>
Cruiser
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 190
Likes: 0
From: Australia
RE: Softail motor?
ORIGINAL: pococj
So if the Heritage has problems, whaddya gonna get? Honda Gold Wing with bad welds that cause frame to break in half? Kawasaki Vulcan with oil pump gear failures? I could go on, but I'm sure you get my drift. Any brand might have problems, minor & major. I think you'll be well satisfied, especially with the things like fit & finish. HD seems to be head & shoulders above the metrics in that department. Guess it's 'cause plastic is hard to keep from warping! <VBG>
So if the Heritage has problems, whaddya gonna get? Honda Gold Wing with bad welds that cause frame to break in half? Kawasaki Vulcan with oil pump gear failures? I could go on, but I'm sure you get my drift. Any brand might have problems, minor & major. I think you'll be well satisfied, especially with the things like fit & finish. HD seems to be head & shoulders above the metrics in that department. Guess it's 'cause plastic is hard to keep from warping! <VBG>
By the way, does anyone know where I can get the official Harley specs for a 2005 Heritage? I am not talking engine design here, I just want to know what the Harley spec is for the oil (engine, primary and gearbox). I can't find anything like that on the Harley web site, damn web site, it has its good points but it needs work....
Tourer
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 418
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From:
RE: Softail motor?
sometimes I would like to know the riding style of some of the people that have problems with bikes....I know of a guy who seems to have his bike in the shop all the time...but when I see him riding he is riding like he stole it....I tell him you can not bang on something all the time and think it will run without any problems.....then I see guys who want to build a engine to run fast.....coming from the sportbike group....you will never be able to match the speed of those bikes....they are just to fast....when I got my harley...I got it to ride and enjoy the road...not to burn it up and fast....I still have my sportbike and sometimes when the need hits me....I will take it down the road and pull back on the throttle....but that's all that bike is for....so what I'm saying is sometimes you can get a bad engine with alot of problems....and sometimes you can be the cause of some of those problems....just my 2 cents.
Grand HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,917
Likes: 184
From:
RE: Softail motor?
Ok I have done some research on thebalancer issue with the chain's loosing tension. Seem's that there is a spring that slide's up and down in a small bore that regulate's the oil pressure that goes into the bypass,to help elimanate this problem there is a spring called basiley oil pump spring that will fix 95% of this problem,from what I have read you can turn the 88b engine safely to 6000 rpm's before the fix but after that you might want to think about putting the spring for the bypass. Like I said before it's mostly the down hard that spin's the drive gear's on the balancer's. One guy said he turned a 88b motor on the dyno trying to blow it up but it kept on churning. It will take a pretty good build to turn one over 6200 just for riding on the street. Now I'm not trying to step on ant toe's but just talking about what I've dug up. Hope this help's. I sort of forgot to say that the oil pressure help's regulate the tension on the balancer's in the engine.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 11,068
Likes: 1,470
From: Texas! Ya mean there's someplace else?
RE: Softail motor?
then I see guys who want to build a engine to run fast.....coming from the sportbike group....you will never be able to match the speed of those bikes
Built my '72CH from 61" to 77" way back in the '70s. It was a monster in that light Corbin Gentry rigid frame. It ran and ran and ran. In between each of those "rans" I was changing oil, replacing the plugs, adjusting the lifters, grinding/replacing valves, keeping a shelf full of generators (they'd sling the solder outta the armature at high rpm), replacing the drive chain, spot checking the transmission cases for cracks, pulling the whole thing apart to weld those cracks back up, blowing the transmission trap door into a million pieces, blasting out the lower right corner of the transmission, checking the welds on the frame, well, you get the picture. I think I found every place on a Sporty motor and tranny that had any weakness at all.
Sure was fun! <VVVBG> And you ain't felt torque until you've felt/seen a frame literally twist underneath your seat when you drop the hammer on a big inch Harley!
Cruiser
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 190
Likes: 0
From: Australia
RE: Softail motor?
ORIGINAL: dm_gsxr
I got the 4 year as well and have taken her in for a major repair and a couple of minor ones on warranty. 36k on her and I'm heading to Alaska in June/July
Carl
I got the 4 year as well and have taken her in for a major repair and a couple of minor ones on warranty. 36k on her and I'm heading to Alaska in June/July
Carl
6th Gear
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
RE: Softail motor?
ORIGINAL: howartthou
By the way, does anyone know where I can get the official Harley specs for a 2005 Heritage? I am not talking engine design here, I just want to know what the Harley spec is for the oil (engine, primary and gearbox). I can't find anything like that on the Harley web site, damn web site, it has its good points but it needs work....
By the way, does anyone know where I can get the official Harley specs for a 2005 Heritage? I am not talking engine design here, I just want to know what the Harley spec is for the oil (engine, primary and gearbox). I can't find anything like that on the Harley web site, damn web site, it has its good points but it needs work....
Cruiser
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 190
Likes: 0
From: Australia
RE: Softail motor?
ORIGINAL: BClem
You are searching for information about an engine that was designed specifically for the softail. You may take note that the custom builders use the 88 engine not the 88B when they build a 'custom' softail. The engine is the same except for the low end torque and much added mechanical putz. Starting to whirl the flyweights will, of course, slow the acceleration, load the sprockets and chains, and give a modest boost in low end torque.
The top end performance will also suffer when baypass oil from the oil pump that supposidly keeps the 'flyweight' chains tensioned decreases, allows the chains to slaken, untimes the balance weights and destroys the timing side of the engine case. The engine is history.
Harley has steped on its dork on this one. The only thing that remains to prove the fact is time - out of warranty time. Harley is very close about telling their customers what REALLY went wrong with their motorcycle. Most service departments will actually lie to you about the true problem. A great shortcoming for Harley who is on the crest of a wave and could give a crap about the people who are loyal customers.
I have more, want it?
BClem
You are searching for information about an engine that was designed specifically for the softail. You may take note that the custom builders use the 88 engine not the 88B when they build a 'custom' softail. The engine is the same except for the low end torque and much added mechanical putz. Starting to whirl the flyweights will, of course, slow the acceleration, load the sprockets and chains, and give a modest boost in low end torque.
The top end performance will also suffer when baypass oil from the oil pump that supposidly keeps the 'flyweight' chains tensioned decreases, allows the chains to slaken, untimes the balance weights and destroys the timing side of the engine case. The engine is history.
Harley has steped on its dork on this one. The only thing that remains to prove the fact is time - out of warranty time. Harley is very close about telling their customers what REALLY went wrong with their motorcycle. Most service departments will actually lie to you about the true problem. A great shortcoming for Harley who is on the crest of a wave and could give a crap about the people who are loyal customers.
I have more, want it?
BClem
Just a reminder of what this post is really all about (see quote above).
I must admit this is the most disturbing post I have read on this forum (to me anyway) even though I have been advised that "as long as I don't mod the 88b too much I should never have to worry" or "nearly all bikes have their flaws", I am still not at ease.
Maybe this advice is the ultimate truth and therefore I need not worry. But I have started to looking into the whole "counterbalance assembly falling to bits and destroying the engine if the oil pressure drops too much" thing so that I can at least see if anyone else shares this opinion or a contrary one or just a different one. I also want to understand the thing in a little more detail as I am certainly no mechanic.
So if anyone cares to contribute to this top from a technical perspective (I am not looling for reassurance) that would be nice
.