I DID AND COULDN'T BE HAPPIER!!! 
Engine Upgrade Choices - Need Advice
R.I.P. BROTHER
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,076
Likes: 6
From: Colorado Springs
+ 1 What Chazmanian is saying.
IMHO a reliiable 100/100 (or close to it) build will give you the long term milage and reliability of a stock engine and all the real life fun of riding that you would get from the bigger builds. I have ridden a couple of 103 -106 kit bikes making 115 -125 hp and for all practical purposes I could not tell the difference, unless you are pulling 1/4 mile runs off eveny stop light you wont miss the difference. 100 hp / 100 tq bikes are fast for 800 lb cruisers !
Save the difference in the $ and do a solid 95 build.
IMHO a reliiable 100/100 (or close to it) build will give you the long term milage and reliability of a stock engine and all the real life fun of riding that you would get from the bigger builds. I have ridden a couple of 103 -106 kit bikes making 115 -125 hp and for all practical purposes I could not tell the difference, unless you are pulling 1/4 mile runs off eveny stop light you wont miss the difference. 100 hp / 100 tq bikes are fast for 800 lb cruisers !
Save the difference in the $ and do a solid 95 build.
I swear if he lived in my town I would ride over and let him cop a ride on mine.
Mine is a simple 95" build by a guy who does motors for the local Buell race team and also Bonneville salt flat Harleys. Dave Arnold in Co Springs. The guy is a genius at making useable power on a budget. We went with 10:5-1 Compression via a .030 set of gaskets and milling the heads down, He full port on the heads then using the exsisting 211 cams did a 5 angle valve seat grind, hand matched 5 over rings on honed cylinders, S&S adjustable pushrods, Vitron valve guide seals, torrington bearings, Fresh set of Hydrualic lifters stuck with the stock cast pistons (Reliable!) new cam chain tensioners, stock throttle body,SE heavy breather AC, spewing through a Rinehart 2-1 pipe.
The bike runs and sounds like a Nascar race car. I shift 3 times at 40-60-90 and let off the gas in 4th gear as its scary fast with one hand on the damnned bars!
Its snappy and strong from 2300RPM and up. The high compression is funky at really low RPM as they all are. It dosent like starting hot if it isnt in nuetral. Its relable as a stocker and rips.
I love me some big power...Maybe when this one wears out I'll do a stroker 103 with a welded, trued and balnced crank along with a bigger throttle body.
Thread Starter
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Road Master
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,016
Likes: 1
From: Front Royal, VA
Trigger Pulled... S&S 106 Stroker On The Way
I just came back from the shop. We sat together for about 3 hours and I took a ride on a 95". I could feel the 95" really pick up around 2500 RPM and when I looked down at the needle I was surprised to see 70. Being in Manassas Park area where the speed limit is 25 I quickly backed down. Where the 95" lacked for me was on take off.
I'm going with a Baker 6 speed transmission. John (the owner) is going to put in the lower first gear to give it what he thinks I'm looking for. One thing I noticed with the Baker transmission is that when in first gear I can still push down on the shift lever. That was unexpected.
At any rate, the down payment is paid and the bike goes in the shop in about 3 weeks when the parts start arriving. It will be off the road for about a month. I'm trying not to rush him. I won't call him more than once a day!
Oh... another thing he's doing that takes a load off my mind is he'll do the initial break-in. I can't remember the name of the method but he measures the head temp runs the bike at 1500 RPM for a short period and measures the head temp again. It cools down to the initial and he cycles it again until the peak temp evens off. Then he puts the first 50 on it. I'm glad he's taking care of the break-in.
Thanks for the quick advice. My riding buddy rides a Gold Wing so he's no help. I'm feeling pretty confident I went in the right direction and definitely excited about the expected results. I'll let you all know how it turns out and post some of those funny graphs.
I'm going with a Baker 6 speed transmission. John (the owner) is going to put in the lower first gear to give it what he thinks I'm looking for. One thing I noticed with the Baker transmission is that when in first gear I can still push down on the shift lever. That was unexpected.
At any rate, the down payment is paid and the bike goes in the shop in about 3 weeks when the parts start arriving. It will be off the road for about a month. I'm trying not to rush him. I won't call him more than once a day!
Oh... another thing he's doing that takes a load off my mind is he'll do the initial break-in. I can't remember the name of the method but he measures the head temp runs the bike at 1500 RPM for a short period and measures the head temp again. It cools down to the initial and he cycles it again until the peak temp evens off. Then he puts the first 50 on it. I'm glad he's taking care of the break-in.
Thanks for the quick advice. My riding buddy rides a Gold Wing so he's no help. I'm feeling pretty confident I went in the right direction and definitely excited about the expected results. I'll let you all know how it turns out and post some of those funny graphs.
R.I.P. BROTHER
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,076
Likes: 6
From: Colorado Springs
I said:
You rode and then said:
Its the nature of the beast on these high compression street builds.
There is a secret trick though.
Launch the fvcker. Yup...Launch it. The first thing they tell you when you first get on a Harley drag bike is wind it up do not let off the gas and dump the clutch.
Is it abusive on the drivetrain? Heck yeah.
So instead of the clutch dumping high RPM launch...Try a half a launch.
Hold the RPM's at about 2500 and dump the clutch a tad slower to cushion the shock on the tranny....I can replace clutchs easier than I can a tranny!!
The first time I practiced launching my big heavy *** Train I was shocked. That big bastard comes outta the hole like a raped ape. Scary strong.
Let the clutch out and do the roll on thing off idle? Its gonna be sluggy til it winds up to about that 2500RPM mark then it starts to pull.
Snap that clutch out like you mean it with the bike at about 2500 RPM and trust me...You will be suprised at the big turds ability to straight "Chit n' Git"!!!
No launch? Dont be suprised if your buddy on a bone stock 88" whatever straight lances you off a stoplight by 6 bikes and you have to reel his stock *** back in all hunched over the bars and angry!! Sucking the very paint off his stocker whilst you sail by.....
That being said I have been practicing at finding that magic RPM sound and timing the release of my foot clutch without crashing!!
I'm gitting pretty good at it.
Its snappy and strong from 2300RPM and up. The high compression is funky at really low RPM as they all are
You rode and then said:
I could feel the 95" really pick up around 2500 RPM and when I looked down at the needle I was surprised to see 70. Being in Manassas Park area where the speed limit is 25 I quickly backed down. Where the 95" lacked for me was on take off.
There is a secret trick though.
Launch the fvcker. Yup...Launch it. The first thing they tell you when you first get on a Harley drag bike is wind it up do not let off the gas and dump the clutch.
Is it abusive on the drivetrain? Heck yeah.
So instead of the clutch dumping high RPM launch...Try a half a launch.
Hold the RPM's at about 2500 and dump the clutch a tad slower to cushion the shock on the tranny....I can replace clutchs easier than I can a tranny!!
The first time I practiced launching my big heavy *** Train I was shocked. That big bastard comes outta the hole like a raped ape. Scary strong.
Let the clutch out and do the roll on thing off idle? Its gonna be sluggy til it winds up to about that 2500RPM mark then it starts to pull.
Snap that clutch out like you mean it with the bike at about 2500 RPM and trust me...You will be suprised at the big turds ability to straight "Chit n' Git"!!!
No launch? Dont be suprised if your buddy on a bone stock 88" whatever straight lances you off a stoplight by 6 bikes and you have to reel his stock *** back in all hunched over the bars and angry!! Sucking the very paint off his stocker whilst you sail by.....
That being said I have been practicing at finding that magic RPM sound and timing the release of my foot clutch without crashing!!
I'm gitting pretty good at it.
Last edited by Chazmanian; Jun 30, 2009 at 04:25 PM.
R.I.P. BROTHER
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,076
Likes: 6
From: Colorado Springs
Meh weak...Not enough RPM?http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERfSm...eature=related
This guy has it right as he will be riding his bike home after the races:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErPAZZWO7zo
This guy has it right as he will be riding his bike home after the races:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErPAZZWO7zo
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,156
Likes: 41
From: So Cal
[QUOTE=kkinderen;5207642]I just came back from the shop. We sat together for about 3 hours and I took a ride on a 95". I could feel the 95" really pick up around 2500 RPM and when I looked down at the needle I was surprised to see 70. Being in Manassas Park area where the speed limit is 25 I quickly backed down. Where the 95" lacked for me was on take off.
I'm going with a Baker 6 speed transmission. John (the owner) is going to put in the lower first gear to give it what he thinks I'm looking for. One thing I noticed with the Baker transmission is that when in first gear I can still push down on the shift lever. That was unexpected.
So is it a 95 your going to build now with a Baker 6 speed ? How much is the estimate ... it should be a few thousand or more less than you first quoted.
I'm going with a Baker 6 speed transmission. John (the owner) is going to put in the lower first gear to give it what he thinks I'm looking for. One thing I noticed with the Baker transmission is that when in first gear I can still push down on the shift lever. That was unexpected.
So is it a 95 your going to build now with a Baker 6 speed ? How much is the estimate ... it should be a few thousand or more less than you first quoted.
Thread Starter
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Road Master
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,016
Likes: 1
From: Front Royal, VA
[quote=XARAN;5209906]
No, the build will be using the S&S 106" Stroker Hot Set Up kit. In addition, we'll use new pistons, cylinders, the Mikuni carb, new oil pump and the Baker 6-speed (not DD6) along with some other parts and work. The estimate is still below 14K for parts and labor. I've never ridden anything other than my 88 so the guy wanted to give me a feel for the 95 and see what I thought. Based on my comments he kinda guided me to the 106.
I had asked about the 124" S&S and he reminded me that I use this bike for commuting and I was also looking for another 70 - 100K from the engine. He suggested the 124" may require more maintenance because of component stress and might be less than enjoyable in city traffic. I think he did a pretty good job of keeping me sane.
I had asked about the 124" S&S and he reminded me that I use this bike for commuting and I was also looking for another 70 - 100K from the engine. He suggested the 124" may require more maintenance because of component stress and might be less than enjoyable in city traffic. I think he did a pretty good job of keeping me sane.
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 7,439
Likes: 884
From: 'Noke, VA
With all due respect to both you and your builder, I think you really need to shop around. If you're anywhere near $14k for what you're describing, you're putting his kids through private school.
I'm in the DC/NOVA area, and I work in central Maryland. We don't have many capable, honest shops around here, so I'm sort of curious who you're using. We do have one of the East Coast's premiere Harley shops in Bethlehem, PA. Before you get in too deep with the guy you're talking about, you may want to give Dave at JD's Cycleworks a call. I've spoken to him at length about my upcoming build, and we've discussed an Axtel 107 for less than half the number you're talking about.
A very reliable, very strong 95" can be had for less than 5 grand, and the S/E 6-speed gearset can be had for around $1,600. Change the primary gearing, and for less than 9 grand you'll have what you want.
Your money, your bike, your build, but it looks to me like you're getting taken to the cleaners.
I'm in the DC/NOVA area, and I work in central Maryland. We don't have many capable, honest shops around here, so I'm sort of curious who you're using. We do have one of the East Coast's premiere Harley shops in Bethlehem, PA. Before you get in too deep with the guy you're talking about, you may want to give Dave at JD's Cycleworks a call. I've spoken to him at length about my upcoming build, and we've discussed an Axtel 107 for less than half the number you're talking about.
A very reliable, very strong 95" can be had for less than 5 grand, and the S/E 6-speed gearset can be had for around $1,600. Change the primary gearing, and for less than 9 grand you'll have what you want.
Your money, your bike, your build, but it looks to me like you're getting taken to the cleaners.
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Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,156
Likes: 41
From: So Cal
That was what I was getting too....... Seems like a whole lot more money than a build like this would cost in my area.
KKindren
Whats most important is your hapy with the outcome, post the results , it should be a fire breather when your done.
But be sure your with the right shop because it sounds like your about to spend a lot more than you need to
