Engine Upgrade Choices - Need Advice
Thread Starter
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Road Master
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,016
Likes: 1
From: Front Royal, VA
Engine Upgrade Choices - Need Advice
Hi:
I'm about ready to pull the trigger on an engine upgrade. I'm looking at bringing the 03 88B to something approaching 113" +/-. There are three options the engine builder is putting on the table so far. By the way, this guy is great. I'm hoping I can get some quick opinions and maybe some questions I should be asking.
The three vendors the shop is proposing is S&S (Hot Setup Kit 106"), Zippers and HQ (because I asked him to investigate). He's trying to put together a solid package that is within my budget, keeps the bike rideable and reliable. He's trying to get the right package and include a 6-speed transmission. I told him I have $12K to spend (but I can bump that up by $3K if it is necessary).
The Hot Setup Kit - if I'm looking at the right one - is a stroker. I understand that this has an impact on reliability. HQ I hear nothing but good things on this forum. For Zippers - it is local and it seems the builder has some good experience with them.
What do you think? Any questions or other concerns I should be discussing with the builder? Should this be in the Softail section or in one of the other sections of the forum?
If and after this is all done I'll be sure to give a full report on the bike and on the builder.
I'm about ready to pull the trigger on an engine upgrade. I'm looking at bringing the 03 88B to something approaching 113" +/-. There are three options the engine builder is putting on the table so far. By the way, this guy is great. I'm hoping I can get some quick opinions and maybe some questions I should be asking.
The three vendors the shop is proposing is S&S (Hot Setup Kit 106"), Zippers and HQ (because I asked him to investigate). He's trying to put together a solid package that is within my budget, keeps the bike rideable and reliable. He's trying to get the right package and include a 6-speed transmission. I told him I have $12K to spend (but I can bump that up by $3K if it is necessary).
The Hot Setup Kit - if I'm looking at the right one - is a stroker. I understand that this has an impact on reliability. HQ I hear nothing but good things on this forum. For Zippers - it is local and it seems the builder has some good experience with them.
What do you think? Any questions or other concerns I should be discussing with the builder? Should this be in the Softail section or in one of the other sections of the forum?
If and after this is all done I'll be sure to give a full report on the bike and on the builder.
Tourer
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 480
Likes: 0
From: Schaumburg, IL
You can always put a Hemi in it.
Check out this site......... http://hemiengineering.com/hemipage.html
Check out this site......... http://hemiengineering.com/hemipage.html
R.I.P. BROTHER
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,076
Likes: 6
From: Colorado Springs
I'm about ready to pull the trigger on an engine upgrade. I'm looking at bringing the 03 88B to something approaching 113" +/-
The three vendors the shop is proposing is S&S (Hot Setup Kit 106"), Zippers and HQ (because I asked him to investigate). He's trying to put together a solid package that is within my budget, keeps the bike rideable and reliable. He's trying to get the right package and include a 6-speed transmission. I told him I have $12K to spend (but I can bump that up by $3K if it is necessary).
The Hot Setup Kit - if I'm looking at the right one - is a stroker. I understand that this has an impact on reliability. HQ I hear nothing but good things on this forum. For Zippers - it is local and it seems the builder has some good experience with them.
For example the newer 96" Harley motors share the same piston bore size as the 88". They became 96" motors when Moco added a stroked crank and made the pistons shorter to clear the additional stroke. The already stroked 96" can get the bigger jugs and pistons and become a 103" your 88 can not.
What do you think? Any questions or other concerns I should be discussing with the builder? Should this be in the Softail section or in one of the other sections of the forum?
If and after this is all done I'll be sure to give a full report on the bike and on the builder
Whats going on with your bike now? Is it just a stocker with a pipe, AC and a tune?
You got any buddies with well sorted 95" builds with good cams, heads and some internal trickery IE: Multi angle Valve seat grind, Hand matched rings etc..etc..
If so would they let you ride the bike so you can get a ballpark on what say 100HP and 100TQ feels like which would help you in determining where you really want to be?
Thread Starter
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Road Master
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,016
Likes: 1
From: Front Royal, VA
Right now it is a stock 88 with pipes and ac. It has been rebuilt once by Harley. I should have done the work back then but the timing was bad.
I just got off the phone again with the builder and I'm probably going to stop by the shop this afternoon. Here's the main list of what he has planned. He has put me in touch with a few other owners that had similar work done and while they seem to enjoy the hell out of it, they also feel real comfortable that it is a long haul build - not something that concerns them about breakdowns.
S&S 106" Stroker Hot Set Up Kit with rocker covers, electric compression release, chrome moly push rods, gaskets and seals and a whole bunch of other stuff pictured (can you tell I'm not mechanically inclined?). In addition... new cylinders, pistons, oil pump, carb (Mikuni 45), ignition, timken bearing, sleeve kit, intake manifold, clutch (S&S), oil cooler (looking at bud but concerned), 6-speed trans and fuel petcock.
The reputation of this shop in the area seems great. I've heard good stuff both from his customers and searching the web. I'll be putting a lot of faith in him because, as I mentioned, I'm really new at all this stuff. He seems to enjoy taking the time to explain things to me and provide options.
The HQ kit seems to be out of the running because they didn't return his calls. Says something about support when there's a problem. The Zippers kit is out because I'd have to forfeit the new transmission to cover the costs. I'm just about at the final decision point - and getting pretty freaking excited!
I just got off the phone again with the builder and I'm probably going to stop by the shop this afternoon. Here's the main list of what he has planned. He has put me in touch with a few other owners that had similar work done and while they seem to enjoy the hell out of it, they also feel real comfortable that it is a long haul build - not something that concerns them about breakdowns.
S&S 106" Stroker Hot Set Up Kit with rocker covers, electric compression release, chrome moly push rods, gaskets and seals and a whole bunch of other stuff pictured (can you tell I'm not mechanically inclined?). In addition... new cylinders, pistons, oil pump, carb (Mikuni 45), ignition, timken bearing, sleeve kit, intake manifold, clutch (S&S), oil cooler (looking at bud but concerned), 6-speed trans and fuel petcock.
The reputation of this shop in the area seems great. I've heard good stuff both from his customers and searching the web. I'll be putting a lot of faith in him because, as I mentioned, I'm really new at all this stuff. He seems to enjoy taking the time to explain things to me and provide options.
The HQ kit seems to be out of the running because they didn't return his calls. Says something about support when there's a problem. The Zippers kit is out because I'd have to forfeit the new transmission to cover the costs. I'm just about at the final decision point - and getting pretty freaking excited!
Thread Starter
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Road Master
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,016
Likes: 1
From: Front Royal, VA
I thought of the new motor route but I kinda backed off from that. The issues I couldn't figure out are how they are balanced (to replace a TC-88B) and what it would be like not to have a HD motor (or at least part of one) still on the bike.
If I had 12K to spend on an engine I would buy a whole new 120 from Jims or head quarters. Just my opinion. You can then sell what you have for maybe $3000 to recoup some of the costs.
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Road Master
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,016
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From: Front Royal, VA
I didn't think this was possible. For instance, I looked at the S&S site and they say they do not build engines to replace the TC 88B. I never even asked the builder about it.
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R.I.P. BROTHER
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,076
Likes: 6
From: Colorado Springs
I was offered a brand new in the crate black wrinkle 103 SE stroker from these guys for $2500 OTD last month.http://www.thundermountaincustoms.com/contact-us
I passed on it as I have freshly done 95" build that stretches me arms out pretty good. That 103 was of the weak crank and crappy head variety and by the time I had it turned into a 100HP/110TQ motor? I would be better served keeping my 93/108 95" rascal.
On that note....A 90-100HP 100-110TQ Harley is a blast. With my Jockey shift setup its almost pointless for me to even chase anymore power at this point as I cannot use the current build to its full potential with one hand on the bars!!
Even when I had a hand clutch and could get a grip and hammer through the gears I never felt that the build was lacking in any useable streetable power. Its fast and leaves my buddies Mean Streak Kawie in the dust. Matter of fact I have a neighbor with a suzuki M109R cartoon mobile and after swapping bikes? An M109R isnt much more bike than a 100HP/110TQ Harley build. The stroke is short on the M109's so it dosent have that deep pull associated with a longer stroked motor. Its snappy and and not as deep if that makes sense?
Either way I would say to the OP see iff you can cop a quick feel of a well sorted stage 3 build thats making 95-100HP and over 100TQ. You may be suprised and think to yourself much more than that isnt all that usable in my daily riding scenario. Baggers and lots of two up stuff? Bigger is way better. FX series softails that get ridden solo? You may be quite pleased and suprised at how strong a well sorted 95" really is for a fraction of the big motor cost.
Reliable as stocker. That also importante!!
I passed on it as I have freshly done 95" build that stretches me arms out pretty good. That 103 was of the weak crank and crappy head variety and by the time I had it turned into a 100HP/110TQ motor? I would be better served keeping my 93/108 95" rascal.
On that note....A 90-100HP 100-110TQ Harley is a blast. With my Jockey shift setup its almost pointless for me to even chase anymore power at this point as I cannot use the current build to its full potential with one hand on the bars!!
Even when I had a hand clutch and could get a grip and hammer through the gears I never felt that the build was lacking in any useable streetable power. Its fast and leaves my buddies Mean Streak Kawie in the dust. Matter of fact I have a neighbor with a suzuki M109R cartoon mobile and after swapping bikes? An M109R isnt much more bike than a 100HP/110TQ Harley build. The stroke is short on the M109's so it dosent have that deep pull associated with a longer stroked motor. Its snappy and and not as deep if that makes sense?
Either way I would say to the OP see iff you can cop a quick feel of a well sorted stage 3 build thats making 95-100HP and over 100TQ. You may be suprised and think to yourself much more than that isnt all that usable in my daily riding scenario. Baggers and lots of two up stuff? Bigger is way better. FX series softails that get ridden solo? You may be quite pleased and suprised at how strong a well sorted 95" really is for a fraction of the big motor cost.
Reliable as stocker. That also importante!!
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,156
Likes: 41
From: So Cal
+ 1 What Chazmanian is saying.
IMHO a reliiable 100/100 (or close to it) build will give you the long term milage and reliability of a stock engine and all the real life fun of riding that you would get from the bigger builds. I have ridden a couple of 103 -106 kit bikes making 115 -125 hp and for all practical purposes I could not tell the difference, unless you are pulling 1/4 mile runs off eveny stop light you wont miss the difference. 100 hp / 100 tq bikes are fast for 800 lb cruisers !
Save the difference in the $ and do a solid 95 build.
IMHO a reliiable 100/100 (or close to it) build will give you the long term milage and reliability of a stock engine and all the real life fun of riding that you would get from the bigger builds. I have ridden a couple of 103 -106 kit bikes making 115 -125 hp and for all practical purposes I could not tell the difference, unless you are pulling 1/4 mile runs off eveny stop light you wont miss the difference. 100 hp / 100 tq bikes are fast for 800 lb cruisers !
Save the difference in the $ and do a solid 95 build.