Raked front end?
Thread Starter
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Tourer
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 373
Likes: 0
From: Lincoln, ND
Raked front end?
Im thinking about raking my front end. I was looking into this triple tree:
http://www.realhog.com/detail.cfm?Ca...dson_Sportster
black with integrated turn signals then run 5 inch longer forks.
Any thoughts or suggestions should i proceed with this project? Ive heard a few things about trail etc and im not sure how to compensate. Thanks in advance.
Perhaps this as an alternative in black as well:
http://www.realhog.com/detail.cfm?Ca...vidson_Softail
http://www.realhog.com/detail.cfm?Ca...dson_Sportster
black with integrated turn signals then run 5 inch longer forks.
Any thoughts or suggestions should i proceed with this project? Ive heard a few things about trail etc and im not sure how to compensate. Thanks in advance.
Perhaps this as an alternative in black as well:
http://www.realhog.com/detail.cfm?Ca...vidson_Softail
Road Master
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 777
Likes: 4
From: West Virginia
Im thinking about raking my front end. I was looking into this triple tree:
http://www.realhog.com/detail.cfm?Ca...dson_Sportster
black with integrated turn signals then run 5 inch longer forks.
Any thoughts or suggestions should i proceed with this project? Ive heard a few things about trail etc and im not sure how to compensate. Thanks in advance.
Perhaps this as an alternative in black as well:
http://www.realhog.com/detail.cfm?Ca...vidson_Softail
http://www.realhog.com/detail.cfm?Ca...dson_Sportster
black with integrated turn signals then run 5 inch longer forks.
Any thoughts or suggestions should i proceed with this project? Ive heard a few things about trail etc and im not sure how to compensate. Thanks in advance.
Perhaps this as an alternative in black as well:
http://www.realhog.com/detail.cfm?Ca...vidson_Softail
the ones in your link are nice, but for the same money you could have a set of chrome plated billet aluminum HHI tree's...imo there just about the best out there for quality and fit, and the finish will out last your bike
check out www.scootersperformance.com for em, he's a super nice, "knowledegable" kind of guy
Thread Starter
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Tourer
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 373
Likes: 0
From: Lincoln, ND
the ones in your link are nice, but for the same money you could have a set of chrome plated billet aluminum HHI tree's...imo there just about the best out there for quality and fit, and the finish will out last your bike
check out www.scootersperformance.com for em, he's a super nice, "knowledegable" kind of guy
check out www.scootersperformance.com for em, he's a super nice, "knowledegable" kind of guy
Road Master
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,230
Likes: 1
From: Oak Park, IL
I've ridden a fair number of raked frame bikes, but have never ridden a bike with the "raked" triple trees. Is there anyone out there that can comment on the diffence in handling between the two?
Seems to me it would really wack the geometry all out of kilter.
Seems to me it would really wack the geometry all out of kilter.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 11,068
Likes: 1,473
From: Texas! Ya mean there's someplace else?
Raked trees decrease the trail. That is fact, and there is nothing that can change that fact. Too little trail will cause high speed tank-slapping-butt-crack-puckering-sphincter-muscle-cramping-seat-squeezing wobbles of your front end. High speed tank-slapping-butt-crack-puckering-sphincter-muscle-cramping-seat-squeezing wobbles of your front end will toss you slap off the bike and turn you into a slobbering, drooling brain damaged idiot.
Raking a frame increases trail, which slows the handling. Raked trees are used to return the trail to a more "normal" figure after raking the frame, which sort-of restores the handling.
Adding raked trees to an unraked frame will decrease trail. Decreased trail will cause the bike to handle more quickly, often to the point of becoming unstable at higher speeds. But what those higher speeds are varies.
You might get away with running raked trees if the rake increase was a small amount, but then again, you might not. If you don't know this stuff already, or if you do not know how much the trees will decrease your trail, I'd recommend you contact someone who can calculate the new frame/front end geometry. And I mean "calculate", not say something like, "Ive done this before and it works OK."
I've been through a high speed tank slapper. The Good Lord was watching as I didn't go down. The front end slapped side-to-side hard enough to loosen the handle bar riser bolts. Mine wasn't frame/front end design geometry, but worn neck and wheel bearings on a used bike I bought. It was a rather exciting few seconds that lasted for at least an hour, all while on the road atop the Lake o' the Pines dam.
Raking a frame increases trail, which slows the handling. Raked trees are used to return the trail to a more "normal" figure after raking the frame, which sort-of restores the handling.
Adding raked trees to an unraked frame will decrease trail. Decreased trail will cause the bike to handle more quickly, often to the point of becoming unstable at higher speeds. But what those higher speeds are varies.
You might get away with running raked trees if the rake increase was a small amount, but then again, you might not. If you don't know this stuff already, or if you do not know how much the trees will decrease your trail, I'd recommend you contact someone who can calculate the new frame/front end geometry. And I mean "calculate", not say something like, "Ive done this before and it works OK."
I've been through a high speed tank slapper. The Good Lord was watching as I didn't go down. The front end slapped side-to-side hard enough to loosen the handle bar riser bolts. Mine wasn't frame/front end design geometry, but worn neck and wheel bearings on a used bike I bought. It was a rather exciting few seconds that lasted for at least an hour, all while on the road atop the Lake o' the Pines dam.
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Thread Starter
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Tourer
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 373
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From: Lincoln, ND
Raked trees decrease the trail. That is fact, and there is nothing that can change that fact. Too little trail will cause high speed tank-slapping-butt-crack-puckering-sphincter-muscle-cramping-seat-squeezing wobbles of your front end. High speed tank-slapping-butt-crack-puckering-sphincter-muscle-cramping-seat-squeezing wobbles of your front end will toss you slap off the bike and turn you into a slobbering, drooling brain damaged idiot.
Raking a frame increases trail, which slows the handling. Raked trees are used to return the trail to a more "normal" figure after raking the frame, which sort-of restores the handling.
Adding raked trees to an unraked frame will decrease trail. Decreased trail will cause the bike to handle more quickly, often to the point of becoming unstable at higher speeds. But what those higher speeds are varies.
You might get away with running raked trees if the rake increase was a small amount, but then again, you might not. If you don't know this stuff already, or if you do not know how much the trees will decrease your trail, I'd recommend you contact someone who can calculate the new frame/front end geometry. And I mean "calculate", not say something like, "Ive done this before and it works OK."
I've been through a high speed tank slapper. The Good Lord was watching as I didn't go down. The front end slapped side-to-side hard enough to loosen the handle bar riser bolts. Mine wasn't frame/front end design geometry, but worn neck and wheel bearings on a used bike I bought. It was a rather exciting few seconds that lasted for at least an hour, all while on the road atop the Lake o' the Pines dam.
Raking a frame increases trail, which slows the handling. Raked trees are used to return the trail to a more "normal" figure after raking the frame, which sort-of restores the handling.
Adding raked trees to an unraked frame will decrease trail. Decreased trail will cause the bike to handle more quickly, often to the point of becoming unstable at higher speeds. But what those higher speeds are varies.
You might get away with running raked trees if the rake increase was a small amount, but then again, you might not. If you don't know this stuff already, or if you do not know how much the trees will decrease your trail, I'd recommend you contact someone who can calculate the new frame/front end geometry. And I mean "calculate", not say something like, "Ive done this before and it works OK."
I've been through a high speed tank slapper. The Good Lord was watching as I didn't go down. The front end slapped side-to-side hard enough to loosen the handle bar riser bolts. Mine wasn't frame/front end design geometry, but worn neck and wheel bearings on a used bike I bought. It was a rather exciting few seconds that lasted for at least an hour, all while on the road atop the Lake o' the Pines dam.
The trail numbers get shorter when you rake the trees. They also get shorter when you extend the front end. I wouldnt think you would need to raise it more than 2" but your trail number gets quite low by doing that. On the stocker you will be about 4.7" trail with just raked trees you go to 2.7" adding 2" tubes gets it down to 2.5"
It will be borderline at that amount of trail. The shorter the trail the quicker it will steer. Meaning it will not be as stable at speed. HHI offers a 3 degree tree in black they are $449 for the trees. You will need a fork stop kit. I suggest the hidden kit they are about $75
As far as tubes if you want to get extended length tubes I can get you pricing but I would suggest the stock tubes and lowering the rear to make the bike level. It will improve your trail and in my opinion looks better.
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Road Warrior
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,396
Likes: 146
From:
As a general rule raking a bike by just using raked trees produces a very unsafe ride. You need to learn how to determine how much trail your bike has stock. Then figure it with the new trees and legs. If you reduce trail significantly you will have the weirdest handling bike you have ever ridden. I rode a guys set up like that in the 70's. Got it around the block and gave it back to him. I've seen two ways to measure trail. The way I did them back in the 70's was: with the bike up straight and the wheel facing straight ahead hold a straight edge down the fork to the ground. Mark that spot on the floor. Next put the straight edge vertically through the centerline of the axle and mark that spot on the floor. Measure the distance between the marks. That's the trail.
You need to understand that the front end doesn't push the front wheel it "pulls" it. Think of the wheels on a shopping cart. As long as the wheels are behind their pivot the cart is fine. If the wheel is turned 180 degrees and is ahead of the pivot it will flop and act goofy. We've all seen that. It will try to twist back to behind the pivot on it's own. Your stem through the neck of your bike is the same as that vertical pivot on that shopping cart. Simply extening your forks increases trail, it does not decrese it.
Raked trees are best on bikes with a radical frame rake (40 degrees or more). Those bikes have too much trail and the reduction cause by the raked trees actually reduces it and improves handling. Try it on paper with a protractor and you'll see how it works.
You need to understand that the front end doesn't push the front wheel it "pulls" it. Think of the wheels on a shopping cart. As long as the wheels are behind their pivot the cart is fine. If the wheel is turned 180 degrees and is ahead of the pivot it will flop and act goofy. We've all seen that. It will try to twist back to behind the pivot on it's own. Your stem through the neck of your bike is the same as that vertical pivot on that shopping cart. Simply extening your forks increases trail, it does not decrese it.
Raked trees are best on bikes with a radical frame rake (40 degrees or more). Those bikes have too much trail and the reduction cause by the raked trees actually reduces it and improves handling. Try it on paper with a protractor and you'll see how it works.
Last edited by Northside; Dec 23, 2009 at 09:14 PM.
Cruiser
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 150
Likes: 0
Look at this site http://www.chopper-kit-usa.com/harle...otorcycles.htm they say that their raked trees are designed to put the trail back to stock.