Beginning to get really pissed off
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,395
Likes: 153
From: Utah
Well, I didn't see anyone tell you that you get what you pay for. You're getting free advice from everyone you asked, it appears to me. I did see one good comment and that was 'there are too many variables'.
If you don't want to dyno your bike so that you know what the AFR is, then you will never know what the right answer is. If you live at high altitude vs. sea level, or travel often between each your dyno results will only apply to one type of climate. If you bar hop and hot rod your engine or go on long tours in the desert you will have a shorter life span of your engine if it is too lean. If you go for show and put about 2000 miles a year on your bike, you probably will never see any difference.
As to someone's comment about if you don't change the air intake you won't get more air in that is possible but not necessarily true. It is true that if you let more air out you have the potential to put more air in if the air cleaner will handle it. That's a fact.
Every aftermarket exhaust performs differently. In general, the better they look the less air they flow. I read an article in AIM that studied this issue carefully and his conclusion was that for the most performance a two into one system is the best, hands down. Radius pipes are cute and loud... they won't necessarily flow that much more air than your stock ones. Baffles can, in fact, improve performance over straight through pipes. You want to know what I know? Start by hitting the drag strip, tinkering a lot, and make your own observations without bias. I bet you will still have a different opinion than I do.
There are a lot of myths. I don't think there is much difference in myth capacity between Harley owners and metric owners.
C#
If you don't want to dyno your bike so that you know what the AFR is, then you will never know what the right answer is. If you live at high altitude vs. sea level, or travel often between each your dyno results will only apply to one type of climate. If you bar hop and hot rod your engine or go on long tours in the desert you will have a shorter life span of your engine if it is too lean. If you go for show and put about 2000 miles a year on your bike, you probably will never see any difference.
As to someone's comment about if you don't change the air intake you won't get more air in that is possible but not necessarily true. It is true that if you let more air out you have the potential to put more air in if the air cleaner will handle it. That's a fact.
Every aftermarket exhaust performs differently. In general, the better they look the less air they flow. I read an article in AIM that studied this issue carefully and his conclusion was that for the most performance a two into one system is the best, hands down. Radius pipes are cute and loud... they won't necessarily flow that much more air than your stock ones. Baffles can, in fact, improve performance over straight through pipes. You want to know what I know? Start by hitting the drag strip, tinkering a lot, and make your own observations without bias. I bet you will still have a different opinion than I do.
There are a lot of myths. I don't think there is much difference in myth capacity between Harley owners and metric owners.
C#
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,928
Likes: 1
From: Desert S. West
Do it right and do a full Stage 1. Your bike will thank you for it and you will be much happier; especially this Summer when your engine isn't burning your right leg.
Give Jamie at Fuel Moto a call or maybe Zippers. If you're half way good with computers think about getting the TTS Mastertune tuner.
Give Jamie at Fuel Moto a call or maybe Zippers. If you're half way good with computers think about getting the TTS Mastertune tuner.
Hey Guy, I haven't been up to date one what you were going to do to your bike etc. I am like you I feel like you the dealer is all about the money and stuff. I have even been told by Dealers it's basiclly this, Buy parts from Harley, do the work yourself or from someone you know. I went through with have just D & D slip[ons on my 07 Fatboy. I wanted to upgrade and I had several pepole suggest to call Jamie at " Fuel Moto". He will not stear you wrong. He will ask you what type of bike you have and what you want to do. He explained it to me, if you change out the pipes- yes you will nned a PC III or etc. If you change out the air flow you will need to do the same. I went with the setup of a High flow air filter, a Power commander III and pipes. the PC III will be automaticly set for your specs for your bike. Just plug it in and your motor will re adjust. Hope everything works out for you. and just a personal note. There is a difference between a metric and a Harley. just a long learning experience with owning a Harley and yes it seems like It;s not worth it, but when your out there on that Harley and riding and you see the guys go by on the crotch rocket, you smile .. so what they can go 120 mph plus.. big deal... you kick back on my harley and smile. Good Luck.
Club Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 802
Likes: 3
From: Wisconsin
Stay away from the dealers,they are great when it comes to factory parts & repairs,when you start doing mods they are the wrong guys to ask.Stick with the independent shops that do the mods and you will be happier!
I agree why chance it and don't sell you'll regret it 
Here's the danger: from the factory, due to EPA regs, your bike is running on the lean side. Putting pipes on has the potential to evacuate spent fuel and air from your cylinders faster potentially making it run leaner. I know that a lot of guys bolt pipes on and go and have great success with it. But I know how I ride. All gas, all brake. A lean running gasoline motor has a tendency to burn valves - that's a fact and a fact that I wont toy with. I'm not mechanic, but I was not willing to muck with the possibility of burning out some valves and needing an upper end rebuild. A buddy of mine bolted pipes and a cleaner on his EFI and needed one at 15K. I don't know that's the reason, but why chance it. Spend the $$ and do it. I doubt you'll regret it.
Queue 27 mechs to come in here and tell me how wrong I am. And they may be right. But I aint gonna chance it on something I just spent $16K on. Know what I mean, bro?
Queue 27 mechs to come in here and tell me how wrong I am. And they may be right. But I aint gonna chance it on something I just spent $16K on. Know what I mean, bro?
Road Captain
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 717
Likes: 3
From: Cincinnati
OK...heres the story..seems llike everytime i go to do something with my bike i get five different answers...I beginning to think its all about the money...Ive asked on here about putting big radius on my rocker and u guys said if thats all im doing i dont have to have fuel managment system just bolt on and go..And the bike would have no problems...Dealer said no have to have high flow air cleaner and computer and a dyno...You guys said no..so i went to a couple of indy places and half agreed with u guys other half said dealer was right..I wrode crotch rockets all my life and never had all these runnarounds..when i wanted something custom i got it and everybody said the same thing for what i needed...Like i said im seriously thinking that harley is all about the money and status so i might just trade in on GSXR 750 SUZUKI AND SOLVE ALL MY PROBLEMS..That way i can avoid all this headache...Losing faith in what i thought was the best bike ive ever owned...
If you're as wishy-washy as you sound and need someone else to fix everything and decide everything for you then you really do need to sell the Harley and go back to your plastic Gixer Jap throwaway bike.
You're not a biker and don't deserve a Harley.
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Cruiser
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 174
Likes: 1
From: CT
Dealer parts kid pushed hard to sell me pipes, AC,race tuner,and 5 hrs dyno time .Race tuner and dyno time would have added 900.00 to the cost of my mods.I ordered my pipes and AC then went in to talk to the service manager.He tells me right away that with pipes and stage 1 AC he can do a $100.00 download and guarntee i will be happy with the way my bike runs. He was right and he saved me $900.00 the guy on the other side of the building pushed hard for me to spend.
Grand HDF Member
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 3,636
Likes: 1,207
From: Ohio
I don't want to contradict anybody but how many guys who only changed their exhaust actually measured AF ratio to see if they are running leaner than 14.7 to 1? The reason I ask is that while the bike may not blow up on you, it still may be running way too lean even though you can run it that way. I WOULD NOT LISTEN TO THE DEALER. I WOULD NOT CHANGE PIPES ONLY AND RIDE. My recommendation is to change the air cleaner and fuel management at the same time. I have an American Iron mag where they swapped out slip ons on a 07 Street Glide and the bike AF went to 16:1 at certain RPMs. Why spend $20K on a bike and then chance hurting the motor? Of course most guys don't keep em long enough to worry about longevity. Do it all at once and pick up the added HP and Tq.
JMHO....YMMV
JMHO....YMMV