Just checked the power commander site. They have a part # available for the power commanders (for 07' model softails) up now and a very short list of maps that are now viewable/downloadable. Maps are for completely stock set-up, a couple slip on exhausts, and a couple 2:1 exhausts. Don't remember on the air cleaners. Most are maps that utilize 02 sensor eliminators............

Now, couple questions / thoughts.....The bagger's have a leg up it appears concerning 07' models having been dyno'd and played with concerning aftermarket exhausts, air cleaners and power commanders and SERT's. I have been watching and waiting for Vance and Hines, Power Commander, and Arlen Ness Big Sucker to come out with exhausts, air cleaner's and maps for our bikes. They are starting to trickle out with a little more information each week.

1) What is the general concensus concerning 02 eliminator's? Anyone using them, going to be using them for 07's? I thought I would wait until the exhaust companies release new pipes this winter with the proper 02 bungs, but the more I read, it sounds like our closed loop systems are really doing very little with the 02 sensor's anyway...........And, V&H Big Radius' made for an 06' softail standard (already released) will technically bolt up to an 07' FXSTC.........

2) With the power commander's running about $369 on their site (for the 07' softail applications), wouldn't it be possible to purchase from another supplier a "general" power commander, or even one for an 06' softail model for about $250 and go to the PC site to download maps? I wonder if the ECM wiring harness changed drastically for the 07's due to the 02 sensor's or something? Seems like the 06' version would fit though - same rear tire, rear fender, PC III tray, etc, etc (basically same dimensions from last year's models). I don't know........

3) Was just thinking that I could have a PC III right now, download the stock map and leave my bike as is (stock), and cut down on some engine heat, gain a little bit of performance, richen her up a little, and then later download what I need for when the new exhausts do get released w/ 02 sensors, or buy the 02 sensor eliminators now, buy the 06' equivelant of exhaust now or this winter even and download that map as it becomes available........?

Any thoughts, ideas or similiar plans from new softail owner's?

 

I called a place here in town, the place I bought my bike recommended them, and he said that he was going to check up on a few things. I also want Big Radius' and don't know yet for sure however sounded like that it was going to be OK to use the power commander with the 02 eliminator's, I am concerned about losing the warrantee, as long as it doesn't effect that I am in as soon as I hit 1000 Miles, they said that they want a min. of 1000 miles before they will tune it, said that they run it at pretty high RPMs for a while to tune it and they want to make sure it is broke in !!

 

Why would you want to eliminate the O2 sensors? I Dyno tune for a local HD dealer, they were using the PC3s for a while & I kept telling them that SERT was the superior product.
As soon as they had an issue w/ a "brand new" bike that the PC could not correct & they had to eat it(the pc3) & install the SERT . Well, long story made short. The SERT is the only EFI tuning device they use now. I posted some of the gains I made w/ the SERT, slip-ons,Stage 1 A/C & a Dyno tuned custom map on another thread, if I can find it I'll post a link. Dont eliminate the O2 sniffers, They are the "Cats Meow"!

 

I agree on waiting 1,000 miles. I am nearly there. Warranty? Hasn't that always been a concern when changing pipes, air cleaners, and fiddling with the maps for the ECM's? Some dealer's will work with you, some won't, depends on whether you purchase parts through them, let them do the work, etc......? I think the warranty is always a source of question personally.

Why eliminate the 02 sensor's? Well, 5 weeks ago when I bought the bike, I wouldn't even consider it. Then I started to read where folks with 07' bagger's were getting their bikes tuned and posting nice numbers. The more I read, the more I ran across people running either slip-on's (which I don't want) or running exhausts made for 06' or earlier models and eliminating the 02 sensors. Then I read more and came to the conclusion that our closed loop systems are pretty much "non-technically advanced" at this early stage, and our 02 sensors apparently do very little compared to late model car's. After speaking to the folk's at "Fuel moto", I was pretty well convinced to go with the eliminators a few weeks ago - but no maps were out for the softail's yet - everything to date was for baggers. I relegated myself to waiting on the aftermarket to release exhausts eventually with the 02 sensor bungs in them, and have a standing order right now for some Big Radius. They are due out in November, but may in reality take much longer.........But, these same pipes are already out and in inventory for the 06' and earlier models - for $150 less - and no waiting........ I can't find anyone to say that 02 sensors are going to make a difference in tuning one way or the other. Making more power by using them? Critical or useful in AFR adjustments? Seems to be they are there, and are really self adjusting very, very little.

I had and used a Power Commander III for 2 years on an 05' softail standard. I ran V&H Straight shots and a Ness Big sucker as well. I downloaded my own map from their site and definately felt a noticeable gain in performance over stock. Throttle response was good at all speeds, had no issues with decel or popping, plugs always looked good, etc. I am a PC III believer. Only concern I would have right now, is waiting on maps and being one of the first to run them. Checking the plugs and paying attention to the bike and how it is running would be noticeable indicators. The SERT - I have no experience with, but doesn't seem to be as user friendly and is not as "reasonably" priced as the PC III.

My dealership had nothing good to stay about the PC III 2 years ago. They just tried to ram the SERT down my throat and get me in for the $300 dyno run. Now, they are a Power Commander certified tuner and are happy to talk to me about the PC III and SERT (and dyno).

Anyway, thought I would get the discussion going. I am still wanting to learn some more, and certainly haven't cancelled my order yet for the new exhaust.........

 

I think I may have come across wrong. I also am a PC3usb believer. I used them religiously for several years & got tremendous results. I still can get those results w/the PC3.
I Dyno all makes & models not just the HDs & the PC3 is the ONLY way to go on the non-HD bikes I tune. The SERT is the better tuning device for the HD simply because it allows you to alter & correct every parameter that the HD ECU controls. Whereas the PC3 allows tunability of fuel & ignition on a warmed up HD.

If you're looking for simplicity & plug & play characteristics then the PC3 is the way to go.

If you want you're bike to run like it was delivered from the factory w/ you're mods already installed & optimized. Then the SERT & a qualified Dyno tuner w/a Load Control Dyno is the way to go.

Max HP & TQ #'s are usually equal on the same bike optimized w/ either of these devices.

The differences lie in the small details cold start up, popping,rideability during warm-up etc. That's where the O2 sensors & the SERT show their superiority.

I have a 2003 Anniv Ed. Ultra that has a S & S 124 engine less the heads, which are significantly punched out S.E."103" heads(total sleeper). I installed the O2 sensors & went w/ the Daytona Twintec System. Why, because this set-up allows my engine to stay in the proper AFR that I deemed to be best for it.
The point I'm trying to make is, don't get rid of the O2 sensors on your new 07. They have plenty of adjust ability in them but, you can only do it w/ the SERT.
If Dynojet steps up w/ a PC that will work w/ the O2 sensors (which undoubtably they will) then I would re access my opinion, but until then I would run the SERT w/ anything this side of a big motor set-up such as the one I described above.

Just my opinion.

As far as HD Dealers opinions go, they vary so much on they're opinions that would be the start of an entirely new thread.

 

I'm really just trying to get some discussions started and some knowledge sharing going with these new 07' models. Ness has the new model Big Sucker's out, V&H have slip-on's out now and an "expected" date for their most popular replacement exhaust systems, and finally Power Commander is moving on the PC III's for the newer models (specifically softails). Maps are trickling out, and I assume are at a little bit of a stand still until the exhaust's catch up now. HD has already had the S.E. Air cleaners and the SERT's w/ 07' maps out for a little while now. We (07' softail owner's) are on the verge of getting the sound and performance we were accustomed to on earlier bike's. Lot's of decisions will be made in the next month or two for alot of us in regards to upgrading performance, sound and reducing some engine heat and correcting factory lean conditions.

I have read lot's of information concerning our current ECM systems w/ 02 sensors and they appear to be very limited in what they can / will adjust for. Nowhere near as advanced as later model cars are. Anyway, still reading, still learning about what we got now.

Cyclepaintmetal - I value your opinion and hope to hear more from you as we get going on the new models and eventual upgrades. It sounds like you have some good knowledge to share.

 

I Agree, and if waiting for the pipes with the sensors is the way to go I will wait, I just hope that I do have a choice when I hit 1000 miles and what tuner does not matter much to me either, I'll I hope to do is let her breathe for now at least. That's why this forum is so great, we get to see what others are using across the country

 

Am I correct that using the power commander with the 02 sensor eliminators will allow the use of pre 07 pipes? I initially thought that the eliminators plugged into the 02 sensor bungs on the pipes, but read something that indicated, but wasn't clear, that this wasn't the case.

 

Yes you can use pre 07 pipes and a power commander, already done it, works fine.

 

Texas Train, where do the eliminators go?