When I first got my bike I put the XIEDS on it and they worked great for what they are designed to do. If you plan to do anything else to it just buy a good tuner right off the bat.

 

Thank you, I appreciate all the great insight. It is tough to navigate through all of the options without having any experience. This is my first Harley Davidson and I am trying to keep those whoops dollars to a minimum. Thank you all again, I think I will be happy with the Stage-1 level for now, is clear there is plenty of options for the next upgrade. I like to do as much of the work as I can myself. Thank you all again.

 

Don't waste your $$ on the dealer download. The factory downloads are programmed for MoCo parts; dealer downloads are not programmed for aftermarket add ons. It may be close but not worth the $$ IMHO.

Like someone else said, the XiEDs are good for what they are. If you have no intention of going beyond Stage I and just want to cool the bike down a bit, the XiEDs will do that. However, they are no substitute for a proper tune.

If you like doing things yourself, look at the TTS Mastertune. Run through 3 Vtune cycles and you will be very close. Additiionally, as pointed out in a previous post, you have a tuner capable of tuning whatever may come in the future.

 

Thank you all, thought you might be interested in my communication with Nightrider.
Subject: 2009 Softail Deluxe,
Nightrider,
I have a 2009 Softail Deluxe, with Vance & Hines slip on exhaust. I have purchased the 29773-02C Stage 1 air cleaner. I was told that I needed to have my ECM re-mapped. Will i benefit from adding the XiED installed with the Exhaust and intake upgrades? Do I need to have the ECM remapped? Do I install the XiED before re-mapping if I choose that path? Is re-mapping a fixed program or customized for each bike configuration and programmed to deliver a specific performance result? Thank you for your help.

FLSTN09
Kissimmee, FL
On Fri, Jan 14, 2011 at 9:12 AM, Nightrider <nightrider@nightrider.com> wrote:
FLSTN09

The standard XiED will work fine on your bike to richen the closed loop mixture from 14.6 to 13.8:1.

But to clarify a few statements that have been made to you:
- You do not have to remap your ECM if you add the Stage 1 air cleaner kit. The HD closed loop ECM will compensate for changes in exhaust/air cleaner to maintain the OEM 14.6:1 AFR in closed loop. Outside of closed loop, the AFR varies from 13.8-12.5 and the ECM has a 'learning' mechanism to adapt the fuel mixture based on the changes that occur in closed loop. Harley-Davidson Engineering had published this in their Enthusiast Magazine in Fall 2006.
- If a Dealer tells you the Stage 1 download richens the mixture, they do not understand Federal Emissions Regulations and how the closed loop ECM works. Federal Emissions regulations will not allow a richer closed loop fuel mixture. That is the law.
- The increased RPM limit for the Stage 1 download is a rider 'feel good'. It does nothing for HP and nothing for real performance. There is a change in the ignition advance curve. This can be helpful, but subjective feedback I have received over the years indicates that only the Ultra Riders feel they have derived any benefit from this change. What most Dealers/Riders/Mechanics think is a change to the fuel mixture is really a change to the VE (volumetric effeciency) table. This impacts the fuel calculations outside of closed loop before the adaptive (learned) correction is made. In closed loop (95%+ of your riding), the ECM monitors the O2 sensors and fuel adjustments are made based on sensor feedback. So the VE tables are never used.
- This does not mean the Stage 1 download is not helpful, only that you do not have to be scared or bullied into purchasing it. The ECM will take care of itself just fine if you do not purchase it. HD has already published the information. All of the major HD/Motorcycling magazines have done some testing exhaust/air cleaner upgrades without remapping, showing nice improvements in power.

These basic comments apply to any 'tuner'. Purchase one because you are trying to resolve specific issues, not because of the FUD factor.

The XiED's are a fixed AFR device. No programming. Just plug-n-play.

Stephen Mullen
S&P Mullen Enterprises, Inc

Subject: Re: 2009 Softail Deluxe,
Thank you for the quick reply.
I have a 2009 Softail Deluxe; With Vance & Hines slip-on exhaust, I have ordered the SCREAMIN EAGLE SOFTAIL DYNA STAGE ONE KIT 29773-02C with a K&N HD-0800 filter element. I will be installing a Premium Oil Cooler Kit Product ID: 26157-07 at the same time. Harley Davidson said I absolutely need to Re-Map (45.00 1/2 hr labor only) after installing the Stage-1 upgrade. I have ordered Niterider XiED to help cool down the engine and improve performance.

Do I install the Xied before or after the Re-Map?

FLSTN09

Kissimmee, FL


From: Nightrider <nightrider@nightrider.com>
Date: Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 8:13 AM


FLSTN09
The Dealer is 'WRONG' by saying the bike absolutely needs to remap for your changes. Any closed loop ECM will automatically compensate and adjust the AFR's for changes in exhaust/air cleaners. This is how these ECMs work. Harley-Davidson published this information in their Enthusiast Magazine in Fall 2006. The Stage 1 download does not change the AFR's. Federal Emission regulations prevent the Dealer and H-D from altering these. The Stage 1 download does change the VE table (Volumetric Efficiency), ignition advance table and RPM limit.

That being said, adding the Stage 1 download does not hurt the ECM and I can show some advantages for it. It is just that Dealers are overstating their case for the need for this upgrade and tend to sell it based on fear/misconceptions, rather than the real technical reasons it can help.

Since you are going to install the Stage 1 download, I would recommend installing the XiED's after the remap. While the XiED really does not care that the download is in place, it would be simpler to do the install after the upgrade.

Stephen Mullen
S&P Mullen Enterprises, Inc


http://www.nightrider.com/parts/hd2007hd_heat_01.htm

 

Thanks for sharing that info! I happen to really like the dealer stage I download on my FLSTN! It runs like a scalded dog and I've had enough bikes/tunes to tell the difference! You can't beat it for the money! I like it better than a Fuelpak...

Good luck with your FLSTN!

 

My 2 Cents:

Stephen is pretty much correct. My dealer discourages the stage 1 download. He said that it does nothing for the AFR!

I went with the FL-Xied-10 on my 2010 Ultra and it apears to run much cooler and smother. I have added a V&H Powerdual head pipe and stock mufflers with a Arlen Ness Big Sucker Stage II air box.

I am very happy with the much cooler ride due to the head pipe and Xied's. I have not checked the mileage yet, but am pretty sure it is a bit lower - maybe because I have been hitting it a little harder..

THe Xied will only help in closed loop, but the stock ECU is set to be much richer in open loop anyway.

My only suggestion is if you bike is under warranty I would not advertise that the Xied's are on your bike or ever will be.

Rick

 

the dealer download is a total piece of crap. get a tuner from fuelmoto or others.

 

You will save $ in the long run by getting a tuner. XEIDS are a bandade to mask the problem and trick the ECU and it is my understanding they only effect the closed throttle to about 1/2 throttle when the ECU is in closed loop. (read the info on niterider) The HD Download (only changes the timing and redline, does not add any fuel because it has to remain EPA compliant) for the $ is not a good deal. In my area the download costs $ 150. For $ 200 -250 you can choose a few different tuner, Fuelpak, PC, DFO, Cobra. If you end up with any other mods you will have to get a tuner. Even if you stay with the Stage 1 the bike will run better with the tuner than with a down load.

Go to the Fuel Moto site they have a good info on HD tuners and fuel injection or call Jamie with questions and make an informed buy