Hey guys, I know there's lots of posts on the topic, but here I go anyways... I have a PCV, but never had a lot of luck with it, and since there are no dyno centers even within 4 hours of home, I ended up taking the unit out and just running the harley flash. So I know plan on getting the auto tune for it to try to make things work. I figure with a map that's even half close, I should be able to get the bike running a lot better. So am I on the right track? Also, is it possible to use the auto-tune to help create a better base map? and if so, what is involved? Have any of you guys had any luck with this setup without getting the bike dyno tuned? Thanks for your help...

 

IMHO I would call Fuelmoto and talk to Jamie or Keith about your options.

 

oh i will be, just looking for some outside opinions first...

 

I used the AT with my PCV before moving to the PV. It worked just fine, dial in the AFR you want to run and it will adjust as you ride. Have you considered you might have a bad PCV? My original PCV would seemingly work fine unless you watched real close. The unit was changing values in the fuel table all on it's own in a random way. That caused drivability issues to say the least. Dynojet replaced it without issue.

I noticed the problem by uploading a map, then reading it from the PCV. I'd compare what I sent it and what it gave back to me, on most occasions there were a half-dozen cells that were different, and not just a little. Some cells would have fuel values 3-4x what they should have, and some would be 3-4x in a negative direction. I re-applied firmware and it still did it so they replaced it.

I am now using the PowerVision with my AT kit I used with the PCV for my tuning runs. It's nice I didn't have to shell out again for an AT kit for the PV.

 

So I'm curious why you changed from a pcv to a pv if your bike was running good? Also, can you record runs with the pcv and at to help build a good base map, or is that only a feature with the pv? Oh, and I'm pretty sure that I wasn't having trouble with the unit itself, just without a tuner around, everything was trial and error and I was never 100% happy with the results, plus I was a little nervous about running without O2 sensors. Anymore info would be great before I call fuel moto.

thanks.

 

The PCV, to me, is the beginners model. You don't have to know too much about how fuel injection works on a modern engine. Tuning is done from an AFR perspective. The rough steps are:

1. Set desired AFR in the map to your liking.
2. Hook up AT kit, ride the bike. The PCV/AT will determine 'trim' values.
3. Those values are how much fuel to add/remove to meet the requested AFR you setup in step 1.
4. Hook up the PCV to your computer, accept the trim values from the last run. This adjusts the fuel table in the PCV map and resets trims to 0.
5. Ride again.
6. Repeat steps 4 & 5 until your trim values are negligible. You have just made your PCV map.

From there you have your map setup for the right fuel delivery given the AFR table you constructed. You can construct multiple maps each with different AFR characteristics. You could have a rich map and a fuel mileage map for instance. The process of creating them is the same except for the values you use in the AFR table. The problem with the PCV is it requires a PC to switch between more than 2 maps (2 can be switched by wiring a toggle switch into the PCV). Now as you ride the AT O2 sensors read the actual AFR, compare it to the requested AFR table, and set trim values. You can either ignore these trim values or apply them on an ongoing basis if you really want to. Or, once your tuning is done, you can take out the AT kit and put the O2 sims back in that came with the PCV and ride on the map(s) you created.

The PV is tuning from a more holistic approach as all the tables (or nearly all) in the ECM are editable by you. First step is to get the VE tables correct, this is a representation of how YOUR engine breathes (air in, air out). All engines of the same type breath different, even given the same parts. HD just uses one map for the same engine (size/family) and it's close enough. So, get the VE correct for YOUR bike first. Then you set the desired AFR for a given map. You then load the map to the PV. You can keep 6 maps on the PV and flash any of them to the HD ECM even while on a trip, without a PC. (my explanation is a gross oversimplification for brevity sake)

The PV really gets the whole engine tuning correct, while the PCV 'piggybacks' and is basically just a fuel adder (it can do spark too). With the PCV you're stuck using the factory HD VE tables which are likely not accurate if you've done ANY modifications to the engine. The PV can correctly adjust the whole engine tuning for any modifications you have already made, or will make in the future.

As for doing it on a dyno, I'd rather tune my bike in real world conditions how I ride vs an enclosed room on a stand. I may not get as much peak HP, but my tune will be absolutely custom to MY bike for MY riding conditions.

 

Thank You!! That is the info I was looking for. I'm not looking for more then what you said the pcv will give me, so I'm gonna make the call tomorrow and pull the trigger on the AT. Two maps will be enough for me, one for ripping around town, and a leaner one for longer trips where I want a little better mileage. Thanks again for the info.

 

Thank you beasley. That too helps. I sent an email to Fuel Moto on Monday and have not heard back yet. I too, already have a PCV and am "close" as I have two maps. One for cooler weather and one for hotter weather. Only issue is I think I could do better in performance and fuel economy. Maybe, maybe not. So I too am wondering if I just move onto the PV or be "happy" with adding an AT to my PCV. Decisions. Decisions. Maybe just save up for a 110 or 117.....

 

I originally used a PCIII on my bike and i considered purchasing the AT feature until i read into it. Dynojet is now focused on the Power vision and all the big upgrades are coming out for that unit. at first it was hard to swallow purchasing a new tuner but as i modified my bike space became an issue and the piggy back unit was getting in the way so i gave in and purchased the power vision. the stock auto tune feature was simply ok. i dont think i really got the fuel delivery just right so it still had popping on decel but ran good at cruse and WOT. I also have an issue with finding a decent dyno tuner that is within range for me so when i did my cams i added the target tune feature with fuelmoto providing the base map. the target tune feature works really well cause it adjust with wideband O2 sensors live including WOT pulls. i put my bike on the dyno to check and see if all was well and it hit on the money for power and fuel without ever needing to get a dyno tune. not trying to convince you to upgrade and spend lots of money when there are other options but if the distance to a dyno is hindering you there are other options out there. My logic as it came to money was i needed to save space so upgrading my 9 year old tuner was worth the money. in addition to that a dyno tune cost about 350 dollars. the target tuner was 400 from fuelmoto so in relative i spent and extra 50 dollars to be able to tune on my own (with the help of fuelmoto)