Thunder Torque Location
Tourer
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 287
Likes: 1
From: Montreal
we are talking about the numbers on the right side of the decimal ......as in .23 to .77 which is happening in between 2000 and 4000 rpm after "11 runs " on that dyno ......the line on that graph is "visually" decieving because in fact...the increase is so minimal . dude....you can get the same "small performance gains" just by using differant engine oils , air filter , spark plugs , 91 or 93 ron octane pump gas.....even tire pressure ! do you follow ? all I'm saying is your product is a load of crap designed to target the "average" joe into thinking he's getting something cool because of the way you market that product .
Road Captain
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 523
Likes: 1
From: kingston ontario
well i dont know about numbers and i have never had my bike on a dyno, but i do know about feel.... i ran my bike for a while with stock exhaust (still is) and for a while with no baffles and after installing the w258's there was a noticeable difference.
just to be clear
without baffles and without thunder torque inserts i would hit high revs pretty fast (and had to) before getting that 'get up and go' feeling (i think that is called torque)
after installing the thunder torque inserts (the only change i made) i would hit that 'get up and go' feeling at a much lower rpm and it sounded better at the same time (it was stupid loud before the inserts)
just to be clear
without baffles and without thunder torque inserts i would hit high revs pretty fast (and had to) before getting that 'get up and go' feeling (i think that is called torque)
after installing the thunder torque inserts (the only change i made) i would hit that 'get up and go' feeling at a much lower rpm and it sounded better at the same time (it was stupid loud before the inserts)
we are talking about the numbers on the right side of the decimal ......as in .23 to .77 which is happening in between 2000 and 4000 rpm after "11 runs " on that dyno ......the line on that graph is "visually" decieving because in fact...the increase is so minimal . dude....you can get the same "small performance gains" just by using differant engine oils , air filter , spark plugs , 91 or 93 ron octane pump gas.....even tire pressure ! do you follow ? all I'm saying is your product is a load of crap designed to target the "average" joe into thinking he's getting something cool because of the way you market that product .
No, WE are not talking about the Max Torque numbers. YOU are talking about them.
TTI's are designed to increase low and mid range torque, NOT Max Torque. This is where most riding is done.
What is happening between 2000 and 4000 RPM's is a significant gain by most anyone's assessment.
Most guys put free flowing pipes on their bikes and they get a big "flat spot" in the low RPM. In the one chart I posted it shows torque at 22 ft-lbs without the TTI's and at 38 ft-lbs with the TTI's. This is close to doubling the amount of torque.
Between 2000-4000 the increase in torque is between 8-12%, again, no small amount.
When we do Dyno work we do a minimum of 3 pulls in each configuration. In this instance the first 3 were with no TTI's then we tried the W158's, then the Q158's, then the Q118's and then the W118's. The W118's showed the best gain with the stock A/C and the Cycle Shack slip-ons.
There were no other changes made.
Here's another chart showing the same bike on the same day, only difference is swapping out the stock air cleaner with an Outlaw HiFlow Air Cleaner.
To see how Thunder Torque Inserts help, even with high-end 2-1 exhaust, check out this entire thread. Some good tech data, especially on page 2.
https://www.hdforums.com/forum/engin...sapointed.html
__________________
DKCustomProducts.com
DKCustomProducts.com
Tourer
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 287
Likes: 1
From: Montreal
No, WE are not talking about the Max Torque numbers. YOU are talking about them.
TTI's are designed to increase low and mid range torque, NOT Max Torque. This is where most riding is done.
What is happening between 2000 and 4000 RPM's is a significant gain by most anyone's assessment.
Most guys put free flowing pipes on their bikes and they get a big "flat spot" in the low RPM. In the one chart I posted it shows torque at 22 ft-lbs without the TTI's and at 38 ft-lbs with the TTI's. This is close to doubling the amount of torque.
Between 2000-4000 the increase in torque is between 8-12%, again, no small amount.
When we do Dyno work we do a minimum of 3 pulls in each configuration. In this instance the first 3 were with no TTI's then we tried the W158's, then the Q158's, then the Q118's and then the W118's. The W118's showed the best gain with the stock A/C and the Cycle Shack slip-ons.
There were no other changes made.
Here's another chart showing the same bike on the same day, only difference is swapping out the stock air cleaner with an Outlaw HiFlow Air Cleaner.
To see how Thunder Torque Inserts help, even with high-end 2-1 exhaust, check out this entire thread. Some good tech data, especially on page 2.
https://www.hdforums.com/forum/engin...sapointed.html
TTI's are designed to increase low and mid range torque, NOT Max Torque. This is where most riding is done.
What is happening between 2000 and 4000 RPM's is a significant gain by most anyone's assessment.
Most guys put free flowing pipes on their bikes and they get a big "flat spot" in the low RPM. In the one chart I posted it shows torque at 22 ft-lbs without the TTI's and at 38 ft-lbs with the TTI's. This is close to doubling the amount of torque.
Between 2000-4000 the increase in torque is between 8-12%, again, no small amount.
When we do Dyno work we do a minimum of 3 pulls in each configuration. In this instance the first 3 were with no TTI's then we tried the W158's, then the Q158's, then the Q118's and then the W118's. The W118's showed the best gain with the stock A/C and the Cycle Shack slip-ons.
There were no other changes made.
Here's another chart showing the same bike on the same day, only difference is swapping out the stock air cleaner with an Outlaw HiFlow Air Cleaner.
To see how Thunder Torque Inserts help, even with high-end 2-1 exhaust, check out this entire thread. Some good tech data, especially on page 2.
https://www.hdforums.com/forum/engin...sapointed.html
.....this graph shows dyno run 003 figures compared to dyno run 018 figures......so it took you 15 runs to come up with these numbers ????
why so many runs in between ???? why not take 1 STOCK configuration run......then....install your junk and do run #2 ? I seriously doubt there will be any change at all . seems to me you're decieving people into thinking they are getting "bolt on" performance when in fact it will take multiple dyno runs and most probably some A/F enhancements to get any gains whatsoever . prove me wrong ......put up a chart with ACTUAL SIDE BY SIDE readings .....as in ....dyno run 003 and dyno run 004 , not dyno run 003 and dyno run 018....do you follow ?
Road Captain
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 523
Likes: 1
From: kingston ontario
@ proffesorzoogy
i have no affiliation with dkcustoms (aside from being a customer) and as i said before i have never had my bike on a dyno but.... the inserts worked for me and there is no doubt there was an improvement in my ride.
i wanted to take a few decibels off my sound (3" pipes with no baffles was really loud) they did that and it sounds good too.
as far as performance goes i was hitting 4 and 5 thousand rpm way way faster than i did with modified baffles but i wanst getting to speed as fast as i did with modified baffles (really noticeable on take off and in the first few gears)
after i installed the inserts (i found the w258's were best with 3'' mufflers) i could take off fast again, and i dont need to hit 4 thousand rpm to get up to speed fast anymore so i did gain some torque.
to be honest when i first ordered them i wasnt expecting much as i am a skeptical kinda guy but i figured for the price i didnt have much to lose....i have to say i was pleasantly surprised by the end results.
sorry i couldnt help you with numbers but i thought you should know, real world on the road effects are something will notice and feel.
i have no affiliation with dkcustoms (aside from being a customer) and as i said before i have never had my bike on a dyno but.... the inserts worked for me and there is no doubt there was an improvement in my ride.
i wanted to take a few decibels off my sound (3" pipes with no baffles was really loud) they did that and it sounds good too.
as far as performance goes i was hitting 4 and 5 thousand rpm way way faster than i did with modified baffles but i wanst getting to speed as fast as i did with modified baffles (really noticeable on take off and in the first few gears)
after i installed the inserts (i found the w258's were best with 3'' mufflers) i could take off fast again, and i dont need to hit 4 thousand rpm to get up to speed fast anymore so i did gain some torque.
to be honest when i first ordered them i wasnt expecting much as i am a skeptical kinda guy but i figured for the price i didnt have much to lose....i have to say i was pleasantly surprised by the end results.
sorry i couldnt help you with numbers but i thought you should know, real world on the road effects are something will notice and feel.
put asside the MAX numbers ....put asside the MIDRANGE numbers
.....this graph shows dyno run 003 figures compared to dyno run 018 figures......so it took you 15 runs to come up with these numbers ????
why so many runs in between ???? why not take 1 STOCK configuration run......then....install your junk and do run #2 ? I seriously doubt there will be any change at all . seems to me you're decieving people into thinking they are getting "bolt on" performance when in fact it will take multiple dyno runs and most probably some A/F enhancements to get any gains whatsoever . prove me wrong ......put up a chart with ACTUAL SIDE BY SIDE readings .....as in ....dyno run 003 and dyno run 004 , not dyno run 003 and dyno run 018....do you follow ?
.....this graph shows dyno run 003 figures compared to dyno run 018 figures......so it took you 15 runs to come up with these numbers ????
why so many runs in between ???? why not take 1 STOCK configuration run......then....install your junk and do run #2 ? I seriously doubt there will be any change at all . seems to me you're decieving people into thinking they are getting "bolt on" performance when in fact it will take multiple dyno runs and most probably some A/F enhancements to get any gains whatsoever . prove me wrong ......put up a chart with ACTUAL SIDE BY SIDE readings .....as in ....dyno run 003 and dyno run 004 , not dyno run 003 and dyno run 018....do you follow ?
As was explained previously, we do 3 pulls for each configuration. This is to confirm that the numbers we are getting are accurate and not a one time anomaly.
We test a lot of configurations, so there could be even 50 pulls between the original configuration and some later configuration that we do a comparison with.
The pulls we did with this bike were for testing different exhaust configurations and different air cleaner configurations. No other parts were changed or adjusted. The bike had X14iED's installed on every pull.
Intermediate
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
From: Naples, FL
To see how Thunder Torque Inserts help, even with high-end 2-1 exhaust, check out this entire thread. Some good tech data, especially on page 2.
https://www.hdforums.com/forum/engin...sapointed.html
I'm mostly curious since I have the W118 that I had installed in my 883 Iron's stock slipons (baffles removed) and was somewhat satisfied with the performance/response until switching to 2" drag slipons (with the included baffles) and noticing that the response/torque seem to be better with the new aftermarket drag/baffle combo. As I'm about to install a NRHS HurricaneFlow intake, Power Vision, and Khrome Werks HP-Plus baffles, with the W118s sitting on my shelf I wondered if they might be a potent combination with the Khrome Werks baffles along with the intake and proper tuning.
The HP-Plus' baffle design seems to have some fans in terms of performance (and sound) so I'm kinda curious if maybe using the W118s in conjunction might even add to the backpressure/reversion-prevention and give even better numbers. Any thoughts, Kevin?
P.S. - Other than for sound reasons, which direction should the cone of the W118s face? Previously I had them installed with the cone facing towards the header pipe (with the screw being visible from the exhaust tip.) Which direction would potentially give me the most performance?
-Beau
Last edited by beau_cauchemar; Mar 7, 2013 at 03:30 AM.
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I know this thread is a little old but I was curious if the pull shown here before the TTIs were installed were with the baffles installed. Based on the hole in low RPMs I'm guessing that this dyno is more or less a comparison of straight pipes vs. TTIs in a no-baffle slipon.
I'm mostly curious since I have the W118 that I had installed in my 883 Iron's stock slipons (baffles removed) and was somewhat satisfied with the performance/response until switching to 2" drag slipons (with the included baffles) and noticing that the response/torque seem to be better with the new aftermarket drag/baffle combo. As I'm about to install a NRHS HurricaneFlow intake, Power Vision, and Khrome Werks HP-Plus baffles, with the W118s sitting on my shelf I wondered if they might be a potent combination with the Khrome Werks baffles along with the intake and proper tuning.
The HP-Plus' baffle design seems to have some fans in terms of performance (and sound) so I'm kinda curious if maybe using the W118s in conjunction might even add to the backpressure/reversion-prevention and give even better numbers. Any thoughts, Kevin?
P.S. - Other than for sound reasons, which direction should the cone of the W118s face? Previously I had them installed with the cone facing towards the header pipe (with the screw being visible from the exhaust tip.) Which direction would potentially give me the most performance?
-Beau
I'm mostly curious since I have the W118 that I had installed in my 883 Iron's stock slipons (baffles removed) and was somewhat satisfied with the performance/response until switching to 2" drag slipons (with the included baffles) and noticing that the response/torque seem to be better with the new aftermarket drag/baffle combo. As I'm about to install a NRHS HurricaneFlow intake, Power Vision, and Khrome Werks HP-Plus baffles, with the W118s sitting on my shelf I wondered if they might be a potent combination with the Khrome Werks baffles along with the intake and proper tuning.
The HP-Plus' baffle design seems to have some fans in terms of performance (and sound) so I'm kinda curious if maybe using the W118s in conjunction might even add to the backpressure/reversion-prevention and give even better numbers. Any thoughts, Kevin?
P.S. - Other than for sound reasons, which direction should the cone of the W118s face? Previously I had them installed with the cone facing towards the header pipe (with the screw being visible from the exhaust tip.) Which direction would potentially give me the most performance?
-Beau
The pull was with Cycle Shack slip-ons with the large 2" baffle. That is the reason for the dip at low rpm.
The stock slip-ons with baffles removed are really large, and of a shape that is not conducive to optimum exhaust gas velocity (and corresponding low & mid range torque), that is why when you put on the drag pipes with baffles you got a bump.
I think if you put the W118's in your drag pipes with the baffles that you will see an even better increase in low and mid range torque.
When you get your new slip-ons, try the TTI's with and without the baffles, to see which way you get more power...almost assuredly you will get more with the TTI's than with just the stock baffles.
Every bike is different (tuning, A/C, pipes, baffles) but 90% of the time the most increase in power is achieved with the threaded part of the TTI facing toward the engine.
Look forward to hearing your results!
Road Master
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,035
Likes: 14
From: Canadian in Germany
put asside the MAX numbers ....put asside the MIDRANGE numbers
.....this graph shows dyno run 003 figures compared to dyno run 018 figures......so it took you 15 runs to come up with these numbers ????
why so many runs in between ???? why not take 1 STOCK configuration run......then....install your junk and do run #2 ? I seriously doubt there will be any change at all . seems to me you're decieving people into thinking they are getting "bolt on" performance when in fact it will take multiple dyno runs and most probably some A/F enhancements to get any gains whatsoever . prove me wrong ......put up a chart with ACTUAL SIDE BY SIDE readings .....as in ....dyno run 003 and dyno run 004 , not dyno run 003 and dyno run 018....do you follow ?
.....this graph shows dyno run 003 figures compared to dyno run 018 figures......so it took you 15 runs to come up with these numbers ????
why so many runs in between ???? why not take 1 STOCK configuration run......then....install your junk and do run #2 ? I seriously doubt there will be any change at all . seems to me you're decieving people into thinking they are getting "bolt on" performance when in fact it will take multiple dyno runs and most probably some A/F enhancements to get any gains whatsoever . prove me wrong ......put up a chart with ACTUAL SIDE BY SIDE readings .....as in ....dyno run 003 and dyno run 004 , not dyno run 003 and dyno run 018....do you follow ?
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