Need a tuner?
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1st Gear
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
From: Germany
Need a tuner?
I have a 2012 CVO Softail Convertible. I just switched to Rush Slip-ons with 2-1/2 Bafffles. I'm getting hi RPM at cold start and a lot of backfiring when letting off the throttle. Been told I should get a turner, but not sure which would be the best. Prefer something in a auto-tuner.
Welcome feedback and recommendations.
Welcome feedback and recommendations.
Road Warrior
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,337
Likes: 4
From: Sunny South Florida
It you did pipes with no AC I would say the bike should compensate after a couple of hundred miles, but yes those are the tell-tale signs of a lean condition. I'm sure it is running a bit hot as well.
The best tuner is a tough question on a forum. Everyone thinks the one they have is the best. I would suggest you just ask which ones to stay away from. Although someone will no doubt say that "they never had a problem with X tuner and have been running it for X years" you can get a good idea of the problems that people have with some of the tuners.
My $.02 is, unless you plan on tuning it yourself or just installing a canned map and moving on, I would talk to your shop and ask them what they suggest. If you only deal with a Harley Stealer than they will say SERT and that is it. If you have a local indy that you trust, they will probably say a PCV or PowerVision or perhaps TTS depending on if they have a dyno or not. I have a Thundermax because I tune my own bike and like the fact that if I screw up the auto tune will correct some of my mistakes to keep me riding.
There are also three kinds of tuners.
1. Add on adapters that fool the O2 sensors to just add a bit more fuel and compensate for an EPA Lean Tune
2. Piggy back boxes that intercept the signal from the computer and modify it per your additional tune parameters
3. Tuner that modifies the original computers programming with additional tuning parameters.
1-xied's
2-PCV, and most others
3-TTS, SERT
Good luck
The best tuner is a tough question on a forum. Everyone thinks the one they have is the best. I would suggest you just ask which ones to stay away from. Although someone will no doubt say that "they never had a problem with X tuner and have been running it for X years" you can get a good idea of the problems that people have with some of the tuners.
My $.02 is, unless you plan on tuning it yourself or just installing a canned map and moving on, I would talk to your shop and ask them what they suggest. If you only deal with a Harley Stealer than they will say SERT and that is it. If you have a local indy that you trust, they will probably say a PCV or PowerVision or perhaps TTS depending on if they have a dyno or not. I have a Thundermax because I tune my own bike and like the fact that if I screw up the auto tune will correct some of my mistakes to keep me riding.
There are also three kinds of tuners.
1. Add on adapters that fool the O2 sensors to just add a bit more fuel and compensate for an EPA Lean Tune
2. Piggy back boxes that intercept the signal from the computer and modify it per your additional tune parameters
3. Tuner that modifies the original computers programming with additional tuning parameters.
1-xied's
2-PCV, and most others
3-TTS, SERT
Good luck
Supporter
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,912
Likes: 73
From: Pittsburgh, PA
You probably don't even need a tuner until you also change out your factory air cleaner.
By just adding slip-ons, you haven't changed the AFR at all.
Once you add a free flow AC and your engine is breathing better, then yeah, go for it.
If decel pop is your only concern, just get a set of XiED's which will add a little more fuel.
I wouldn't spend $500+ for a tuner just for adding slip-ons...
By just adding slip-ons, you haven't changed the AFR at all.
Once you add a free flow AC and your engine is breathing better, then yeah, go for it.
If decel pop is your only concern, just get a set of XiED's which will add a little more fuel.
I wouldn't spend $500+ for a tuner just for adding slip-ons...
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 3,492
Likes: 19
From: Illinois
I agree, you probably need more air in the bike since the pipe change. I also agree everyone thinks that they have the best tuner. I have the SE race tuner and I couldn't be more happy but is it the best tuner out there? They are all good depending on what the rest of your bike has, how fat your wallet is and how and where you ride your bike. You also can't go wrong with a Dyno tune but not from a Harley shop. They have to follow Harley and EPA guidelines which keeps your bike running lean and hot.
Grand HDF Member
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,973
Likes: 912
From: Omaha
I'm no expert but I've done a lot of research on this subject and last week I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express.
My research leads me to believe that the Power Vision with Autotune is one of the best units out there. However that unit along with others in their category (PCV, SEPT, Thundermax ...) are really for bikes that are at a stage 2 and above where-as a total engine tuner is needed. They are kinda overkill for bikes that are at only a stage 1.
For an engine that's only at stage 1 you don't require anything more than a tuner that will manage fuel input.
I recommend you upgrade the AC as well as add a "fuel" Tuner.
Once you figure out what AC you want to go with, contact Vance and Hines, tell them the bike, exhaust and the AC you have and ask them what model "Fuelpak" they recommend.
Then go onto e-Bay and start searching for a used "Fuelpak" for around $125 that someone whose moving up to an engine tuner is trying to unload. It might take some time to snag one at a decent price.
The above is what I did and I'm very happy with the Fuelpak and I only have $135 in it.
If I ever go to stage 2, I'll then sell the Fuelpak and upgrade to probably a Power Vision with an Autotuner.
If you are set on buying a new Tuner or don't want to wait for a deal on e-Bay, I recommend going through Fuel Moto and ordering a DynaJet Micro Tuner. It's appears to be a great fuel management tuner and I hear that Fuel Moto's customer support is second to none. Also Fuel Moto will pre-program the unit for you and then help you over the phone "fine tune" it if necessary.
Good luck with your choice.
My research leads me to believe that the Power Vision with Autotune is one of the best units out there. However that unit along with others in their category (PCV, SEPT, Thundermax ...) are really for bikes that are at a stage 2 and above where-as a total engine tuner is needed. They are kinda overkill for bikes that are at only a stage 1.
For an engine that's only at stage 1 you don't require anything more than a tuner that will manage fuel input.
I recommend you upgrade the AC as well as add a "fuel" Tuner.
Once you figure out what AC you want to go with, contact Vance and Hines, tell them the bike, exhaust and the AC you have and ask them what model "Fuelpak" they recommend.
Then go onto e-Bay and start searching for a used "Fuelpak" for around $125 that someone whose moving up to an engine tuner is trying to unload. It might take some time to snag one at a decent price.
The above is what I did and I'm very happy with the Fuelpak and I only have $135 in it.
If I ever go to stage 2, I'll then sell the Fuelpak and upgrade to probably a Power Vision with an Autotuner.
If you are set on buying a new Tuner or don't want to wait for a deal on e-Bay, I recommend going through Fuel Moto and ordering a DynaJet Micro Tuner. It's appears to be a great fuel management tuner and I hear that Fuel Moto's customer support is second to none. Also Fuel Moto will pre-program the unit for you and then help you over the phone "fine tune" it if necessary.
Good luck with your choice.
Road Master
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 884
Likes: 0
From: n
I am pretty sure the CVO bikes are already have an open breather, so that's dealt with. It also is probably already Stg II compared to the 103s since it has 255 cams, stroker crank and SE heads. Now for the tuner part, if it were me I would do the SE tuner just because it is a CVO bike. If not an SE, I would at least go with a tuner as opposed to some piggy back option. You are in for $28K, don't cheap out now.
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Grand HDF Member
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,973
Likes: 912
From: Omaha
I am pretty sure the CVO bikes are already have an open breather, so that's dealt with. It also is probably already Stg II compared to the 103s since it has 255 cams, stroker crank and SE heads. Now for the tuner part, if it were me I would do the SE tuner just because it is a CVO bike. If not an SE, I would at least go with a tuner as opposed to some piggy back option. You are in for $28K, don't cheap out now.
With the CVO, I agree I'd stay factory and go with a dealer installed SEPT.
I say dealer installed only because you don't want to put your warranty at risk and if you go to an indie you might run into warranty trouble if something fails.
After the warranty expires you can then go to an indie and have it tuned without regard to EPA requirements.
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Road Warrior
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,337
Likes: 4
From: Sunny South Florida
The above is why I went with a T-max. It replaces the computer completely. So if there were to be some sort of problem that needed to be handled by the dealer, four screws, one wire harness clip and the t-max is out and you put the stock computer right back.
That is what convinced me to go with the T-max in the first place.
That is what convinced me to go with the T-max in the first place.
Club Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 145,895
Likes: 821
From: 40 miles Northeast of Indy..
Not sure what the Hi Idle cause is, but the Popping and backfiring is probably from the 2 1/2 baffles.
Been said many times in here that without a tuner the {1 3\4'' (preferred)} stock motor or 2'' baffles if U have cams and stg1 works better for Rush pipes.
As far as tuners there a lot more choices now days than their was 7 yrs ago when I got my SERT tuner and dyno...
Still, IMO The SERT or now its the SEpST is as good as any and better than most tuners to be use.
I've had mine 7ys and 42k without a single issue and on my Son's last three bikes, his 07 had the SERT and His 09 and 10 he had SEpST installed and he also has never had an issue with them.
We add the tuners on our bikes when we do the STG1 and cams, Then U won't need any more dyno's till U make major engine mods again.
If he or I bought another new bike, we both would buy another SEpST for them.
I am with T-bone above, we like the SE tuners
.
Been said many times in here that without a tuner the {1 3\4'' (preferred)} stock motor or 2'' baffles if U have cams and stg1 works better for Rush pipes.
As far as tuners there a lot more choices now days than their was 7 yrs ago when I got my SERT tuner and dyno...
Still, IMO The SERT or now its the SEpST is as good as any and better than most tuners to be use.
I've had mine 7ys and 42k without a single issue and on my Son's last three bikes, his 07 had the SERT and His 09 and 10 he had SEpST installed and he also has never had an issue with them.
We add the tuners on our bikes when we do the STG1 and cams, Then U won't need any more dyno's till U make major engine mods again.
If he or I bought another new bike, we both would buy another SEpST for them.
I am with T-bone above, we like the SE tuners
.
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