Disappointing Dyno numbers
Intermediate
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
From: Deer Park, Alabama
I could tell right away with my Heritage. I had to pick it up with a trailer, and I could feel the difference loading it. Much better with 204's. I just got a download from Fuel Moto and auto tuned it. Never did a dyno tune, so I have no numbers. Just know I'm happy with mine. Much stronger. It likes higher RPM for sure. I hope you figure it out.
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 2,710
Likes: 529
From: Lethbridge, Alberta Canada
Getting good power out of an engine is a but like dressing a woman to "look just right". You can't just combine individually gorgeous dress, purse, shoes, and jewelry, because they won't necessarily look good when all or even a few of them are worn at the same time. They need to MATCH and WORK TOGETHER to make "a great look".
To RELIABLY get a PREDICTABLE increase in power and torque, you need to do a "package" (kit) that a capable engine builder with a good track record has designed, tried, and proven BEFORE YOU buy the package.
Even then, don't expect to necessarily get what the builder claims, or even to get close to the claim. The builder will optimize everything about the build that he does from which he plans to draw his performance claims. He can't do that on a "normal" build because the labor bill, and the extraordinary measures taken (e.g. making sure that the tolerances are not only within standards, but are actually EXACT), would make the work waaaay more costly than a customer is willing to pay.
Then, there are also factors beyond your control. For example, my 2914 Softail Breakout uses a "B" (balanced) engine versus the "A" (unbalanced) engines used on non-Softails. The B engine's heavy balancer system which includes sprockets, chain, and rotating balance weights, lowers the power reported by a Dynojet dyno by 5%. That means my reported actual dyno results will never match what the builder claims.
It sounds like the OP has picked and chosen the individual components he has heard good things about, but did not check with anyone knowledgeable to ensure that the specific combination he has chosen will be effective TOGETHER.
Jim G
To RELIABLY get a PREDICTABLE increase in power and torque, you need to do a "package" (kit) that a capable engine builder with a good track record has designed, tried, and proven BEFORE YOU buy the package.
Even then, don't expect to necessarily get what the builder claims, or even to get close to the claim. The builder will optimize everything about the build that he does from which he plans to draw his performance claims. He can't do that on a "normal" build because the labor bill, and the extraordinary measures taken (e.g. making sure that the tolerances are not only within standards, but are actually EXACT), would make the work waaaay more costly than a customer is willing to pay.
Then, there are also factors beyond your control. For example, my 2914 Softail Breakout uses a "B" (balanced) engine versus the "A" (unbalanced) engines used on non-Softails. The B engine's heavy balancer system which includes sprockets, chain, and rotating balance weights, lowers the power reported by a Dynojet dyno by 5%. That means my reported actual dyno results will never match what the builder claims.
It sounds like the OP has picked and chosen the individual components he has heard good things about, but did not check with anyone knowledgeable to ensure that the specific combination he has chosen will be effective TOGETHER.
Jim G
Tourer
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 252
Likes: 1
From: Kentucky
I really didn't expect anything from the duals, but they are advertised to improve performance. Also, a 2 into one is not really that good of a look on a Deluxe, in my opinion. The real issue is the cams. I compared the two dyno sheets, and very little change occurred. Is that really the expected outcome? Everybody I talked to seemed to think cams really lit a fire under their bike.
Don't know all that much about the cams you put in....but at this point I would say if it looks good (to you), sounds good, and runs good then that seems like a win to a large degree and you'll probably be happy with it.
Thread Starter
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Cruiser
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 198
Likes: 1
From: Lakeland, TN
I could tell right away with my Heritage. I had to pick it up with a trailer, and I could feel the difference loading it. Much better with 204's. I just got a download from Fuel Moto and auto tuned it. Never did a dyno tune, so I have no numbers. Just know I'm happy with mine. Much stronger. It likes higher RPM for sure. I hope you figure it out.
Thread Starter
|
Cruiser
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 198
Likes: 1
From: Lakeland, TN
Getting good power out of an engine is a but like dressing a woman to "look just right". You can't just combine individually gorgeous dress, purse, shoes, and jewelry, because they won't necessarily look good when all or even a few of them are worn at the same time. They need to MATCH and WORK TOGETHER to make "a great look".
To RELIABLY get a PREDICTABLE increase in power and torque, you need to do a "package" (kit) that a capable engine builder with a good track record has designed, tried, and proven BEFORE YOU buy the package.
Even then, don't expect to necessarily get what the builder claims, or even to get close to the claim. The builder will optimize everything about the build that he does from which he plans to draw his performance claims. He can't do that on a "normal" build because the labor bill, and the extraordinary measures taken (e.g. making sure that the tolerances are not only within standards, but are actually EXACT), would make the work waaaay more costly than a customer is willing to pay.
Then, there are also factors beyond your control. For example, my 2914 Softail Breakout uses a "B" (balanced) engine versus the "A" (unbalanced) engines used on non-Softails. The B engine's heavy balancer system which includes sprockets, chain, and rotating balance weights, lowers the power reported by a Dynojet dyno by 5%. That means my reported actual dyno results will never match what the builder claims.
It sounds like the OP has picked and chosen the individual components he has heard good things about, but did not check with anyone knowledgeable to ensure that the specific combination he has chosen will be effective TOGETHER.
Jim G
To RELIABLY get a PREDICTABLE increase in power and torque, you need to do a "package" (kit) that a capable engine builder with a good track record has designed, tried, and proven BEFORE YOU buy the package.
Even then, don't expect to necessarily get what the builder claims, or even to get close to the claim. The builder will optimize everything about the build that he does from which he plans to draw his performance claims. He can't do that on a "normal" build because the labor bill, and the extraordinary measures taken (e.g. making sure that the tolerances are not only within standards, but are actually EXACT), would make the work waaaay more costly than a customer is willing to pay.
Then, there are also factors beyond your control. For example, my 2914 Softail Breakout uses a "B" (balanced) engine versus the "A" (unbalanced) engines used on non-Softails. The B engine's heavy balancer system which includes sprockets, chain, and rotating balance weights, lowers the power reported by a Dynojet dyno by 5%. That means my reported actual dyno results will never match what the builder claims.
It sounds like the OP has picked and chosen the individual components he has heard good things about, but did not check with anyone knowledgeable to ensure that the specific combination he has chosen will be effective TOGETHER.
Jim G
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 2,710
Likes: 529
From: Lethbridge, Alberta Canada
Someone who does cams every day and knows the specs of the cam you installed may be able to give you a much more specific answer.
Real life car example:
I had a 2004 Chevy SSR (the retro styled pickup truck GM produced for 4 model years) with a 5 liter V8. Before I supercharged it, I first simply changed the cam to a 2002 Corvette Z06 cam, and replaced the exhaust with a large OD exhaust with only resonators, no muffler. A stock 2002 Z06 (5.6 liters) produces about 360 rwhp. I got 327 rwhp, because my exhaust was better than that of a stock Z06, but my LM4 heads were a "cork" for the cam at high rpm, that limited its ability to breathe well enough beyond 5800 rpm.
Even after adding a Magnuson supercharger kit, it still got less power than a similarly supercharged Z06 was getting, because the heads were still the issue, and even the blower couldn't overcome that adequately. The blower pushed enough air to force the pressure to 9psi because the heads were the cork in the whole system, and 9psi is as high as I dared go with stock non-forged pistons.
Jim G
Thread Starter
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Cruiser
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 198
Likes: 1
From: Lakeland, TN
P
Generically, yes, you could conceivably get very little, or even less than before, if that cam is designed to work with a different rpm range than the exhaust is (so the exhaust is sabotaging the cam), or if the cam requires more actual compression (NOT compression based only on piston and chamber dimensions) than you have, or if the cam was installed slightly off in its timing.
Someone who does cams every day and knows the specs of the cam you installed may be able to give you a much more specific answer.
Real life car example:
I had a 2004 Chevy SSR (the retro styled pickup truck GM produced for 4 model years) with a 5 liter V8. Before I supercharged it, I first simply changed the cam to a 2002 Corvette Z06 cam, and replaced the exhaust with a large OD exhaust with only resonators, no muffler. A stock 2002 Z06 (5.6 liters) produces about 360 rwhp. I got 327 rwhp, because my exhaust was better than that of a stock Z06, but my LM4 heads were a "cork" for the cam at high rpm, that limited its ability to breathe well enough beyond 5800 rpm.
Even after adding a Magnuson supercharger kit, it still got less power than a similarly supercharged Z06 was getting, because the heads were still the issue, and even the blower couldn't overcome that adequately. The blower pushed enough air to force the pressure to 9psi because the heads were the cork in the whole system, and 9psi is as high as I dared go with stock non-forged pistons.
Jim G
Someone who does cams every day and knows the specs of the cam you installed may be able to give you a much more specific answer.
Real life car example:
I had a 2004 Chevy SSR (the retro styled pickup truck GM produced for 4 model years) with a 5 liter V8. Before I supercharged it, I first simply changed the cam to a 2002 Corvette Z06 cam, and replaced the exhaust with a large OD exhaust with only resonators, no muffler. A stock 2002 Z06 (5.6 liters) produces about 360 rwhp. I got 327 rwhp, because my exhaust was better than that of a stock Z06, but my LM4 heads were a "cork" for the cam at high rpm, that limited its ability to breathe well enough beyond 5800 rpm.
Even after adding a Magnuson supercharger kit, it still got less power than a similarly supercharged Z06 was getting, because the heads were still the issue, and even the blower couldn't overcome that adequately. The blower pushed enough air to force the pressure to 9psi because the heads were the cork in the whole system, and 9psi is as high as I dared go with stock non-forged pistons.
Jim G
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,217
Likes: 90
From: Detroit
Maybe the numbers for the original Stage 1 dyno were optimistic, and you actually gained good power with the cams. Wouldn't a 16 horsepower increase for just a Stage 1 be an awful lot?
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Thread Starter
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Cruiser
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 198
Likes: 1
From: Lakeland, TN
I have no experience with that, but I wondered about it as well. I will say the work this time was done by the shop foreman who is also their "master mechanic". The bike does run better. I can't get it to pop on decell even when trying. The bigger cam improved the sound at idle with a much better lope. I guess I'll get used to the idea that I didn't get a power boost out of this.