Disappointing Dyno numbers

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Jun 15, 2014 | 02:16 PM

#21

JimGnitecki

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From: Lethbridge, Alberta Canada

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warp Factor

Maybe the numbers for the original Stage 1 dyno were optimistic, and you actually gained good power with the cams. Wouldn't a 16 horsepower increase for just a Stage 1 be an awful lot?

A properly installed and tuned stage 1 kit on any recent model Harley Big Twin truly does increase rwhp by between 11 and 16 rwhp.

The reason the gain is so huge is that Harley is forced to ship the new bikes, with these huge air cooled V-twin engines, with ridiculously restrictive exhaust and intake in order to meet applicable noise and emission regulations and standards. The air cooling and huge displacement apparently make it impossible to allow the engines to breathe properly and still pass the required tests.

Jim G

Jun 15, 2014 | 02:24 PM

#22

Dieselvol

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From: Lakeland, TN

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkblues

"Was your bike already at stage I prior to the new cam? I'm wondering since mine was."

Yes. Stage one. Pipes and air cleaner.

I'd say the difference is that I added a variable (new pipes) that you apparently didn't. I still plan to call tomorrow and see if I can get some answers.

Jun 15, 2014 | 02:26 PM

#23

oct1949

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From: 40 miles Northeast of Indy..

Here's the difference of my 07 Heritage, 2 dyno sheets,,
1 first one just stg1 base and Second one is after adding Andrews 26h cams...

Stg1 - Rush muffs, SE/AC, SERT. base run dyno

Stg1 plus cams after tune -

My son had two bike with 204's add, A 07 Deuce and 09 NT..
Here is the results he got...

This sheet below shows the difference of the Sons 07 Deuce dyno of Stg1 VS Stg1 and cams - SE204's, BR's 2-2, SE/AC, SERT.

This is the Sons final dyno of his 09 NT with SE204's, SE/AC, SEpST, V&H's BSL's

So IMO you should feel and tell a big difference when you added the cams..

You really need to get a copy of your base line run and then a copy of your final tune So you can actually see what the difference/increase was...

Then post them if you would so we can see whats going on,...

..

Jun 15, 2014 | 02:35 PM

#24

Dieselvol

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From: Lakeland, TN

Quote:

Originally Posted by oct1949

Here's the difference of my 07 Heritage, 2 dyno sheets,,
1 first one just stg1 base and Second one is after adding Andrews 26h cams...

Stg1 - Rush muffs, SE/AC, SERT. base run dyno

Stg1 plus cams after tune -

This is the Sons final dyno of his 09 NT with SE204's, SE/AC, SEpST, V&H's BSL's

Ok, I'll get some pics after my wife lets me off of building this flow bed (on Father's Day yet). I think I should mention that my stage I included an HD race tuner. So, my bike was turning 76 hp at stage I, before the cams.

Jun 15, 2014 | 02:49 PM

#25

JimGnitecki

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Joined: Feb 2014

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From: Lethbridge, Alberta Canada

Quote:

Originally Posted by oct1949

Here's the difference of my 07 Heritage, 2 dyno sheets,,
1 first one just stg1 base and Second one is after adding Andrews 26h cams...

Stg1 - Rush muffs, SE/AC, SERT. base run dyno

Stg1 plus cams after tune -

This is the Sons final dyno of his 09 NT with SE204's, SE/AC, SEpST, V&H's BSL's

The problem with YOUR comparison being offered here is that your Stage 1 was completely ineffective; The 65 rwhp it shows is what a typical COMPLETELY STOCK big twin shows on the dyno.

Your addition of the cam was NOT what made the huge difference when you added it. During the cam install, somebody undid something that was WRONG before that cam swap was made. A stage 1 kit, withOUT the cam, should have moved your bike from approx 65 rwhp to 75 to 80 rwhp, depending on exact exhaust and air intake used.

Jim G

Jun 15, 2014 | 03:12 PM

#26

Dieselvol

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From: Lakeland, TN

Here's the upside down version of the stock to stage I dyno. Just touch the photo to enlarge it. No idea why it's upside down. It won't let me post another pic, so next message will have the new one, likely upside down as well.

[attach]384509[/

Attached Thumbnails

Jun 15, 2014 | 03:16 PM

#27

Dieselvol

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From: Lakeland, TN

The post cam dyno. Looks pretty much the same to me.

Jun 15, 2014 | 03:24 PM

#28

Warp Factor

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Joined: Aug 2012

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From: Detroit

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dieselvol

Ok, I'll get some pics after my wife lets me off of building this flow bed (on Father's Day yet).

Ha ha, my father's day gift was handing my wife $200 for a new pair of pants! But maybe she'll cook me dinner when she gets back from the store.

Don't want to place too much faith in dyno numbers. A talented and experienced dyno operator can put the numbers almost anywhere they want, and they're not always above doing it to make money.

A while back, I had a supercharged Big Block Chevy on an engine dyno. After something like fifteen pulls, the dyno operator handed me two sheets, and said,
"The first one is your real numbers, and the second one is to impress your buddies."

200 horsepower difference.

Stage 1, and a 16 horsepower or 20% increase? I have two stage one bikes, and I really really doubt it!

There's also a difference between what can be done with "tuning on the ragged edge", and doing a "safe" tune.

Last edited by Warp Factor; Jun 15, 2014 at 03:48 PM.

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Jun 15, 2014 | 03:53 PM

#29

JimGnitecki

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Joined: Feb 2014

Posts: 2,710

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From: Lethbridge, Alberta Canada

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dieselvol

The post cam dyno. Looks pretty much the same to me.

Attachment 384516

It's hard to analyze upside down graphs, but they sure look similar . . .

Are you sure that your dealer didn't simply reprint the Stage 1 graph when he intended to print the cam graph?

It wouldn't be the first time a dealership or indy has done that accidentally.

Jim G

Jun 15, 2014 | 03:55 PM

#30

JimGnitecki

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Joined: Feb 2014

Posts: 2,710

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From: Lethbridge, Alberta Canada

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warp Factor

Stage 1, and a 16 horsepower or 20% increase? I have two stage one bikes, and I really really doubt it!

There's also a difference between what can be done with "tuning on the ragged edge", and doing a "safe" tune.

Don't take my word for the huge Stage 1 increase being normal. Look at the rwhp and torque graphs that HD itself prints in its Screamin' Eagle catalog, and also reproduces online in a pdf version of the catalog. Those graphs clearly show exactly what I am telling you is the truth.

Jim G

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